CitationAbuse:CES Letter:John Whitmer:Supernatural power - Revision history

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	[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]		[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]

RogerNicholson at 14:37, 14 October 2014

2014-10-14T14:37:20Z

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	===The ~~citation~~===		==Why did the author of the ''Letter to a CES Director'' avoid including John Whitmer's clear statement about handling the plates and only include the small portion of Whitmer's quote that supported his position?==
			===The original ''Letter to a CES Director'' presents a quote from John Whitmer, one of the Eight Witnesses, in order to demonstrate the Whitmer did not actually see the gold plates===
	The original ''Letter to a CES Director'' presents the following quote from John Whitmer, one of the Eight Witnesses, in order to demonstrate the Whitmer did not actually see the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated:		The original ''Letter to a CES Director'' presents the following quote from John Whitmer, one of the Eight Witnesses, in order to demonstrate the Whitmer did not actually see the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
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	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

	===The ~~reality~~===		===The complete quote from John Whitmer actually ''confirms'' that he saw and handled the plates===
	This quote from John Whitmer actually ''confirms'' that he saw and handled the plates. All we have to do is look at the very same source. Whitmer states:		This quote from John Whitmer actually ''confirms'' that he saw and handled the plates. All we have to do is look at the very same source. Whitmer states:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
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	“[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: <span style="color:red">‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings],</span> and [said] <span style="color:blue">‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power;’</span> he acknowledged all.” <ref>''History of the Church'' Vol. 3, Ch. 21, p. 307-308</ref>		“[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: <span style="color:red">‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings],</span> and [said] <span style="color:blue">‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power;’</span> he acknowledged all.” <ref>''History of the Church'' Vol. 3, Ch. 21, p. 307-308</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

	~~===Questions===~~
	*Why did the author of the ''Letter to a CES Director'' choose to avoid including John Whitmer's clear statement about handling the plates?
	*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?

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	~~== ==~~		{{endnotes sources}}
	{{endnotes ~~label~~}}
	~~<references/>~~

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	[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]		[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]

RogerNicholson: /* */

2014-09-20T13:27:16Z

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	*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?		*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?

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	== ==		== ==
	{{endnotes label}}		{{endnotes label}}
	<references/>		<references/>
	~~</onlyinclude>~~

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	[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]		[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]

RogerNicholson at 15:22, 15 September 2014

2014-09-15T15:22:41Z

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			[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]

RogerNicholson at 23:40, 14 September 2014

2014-09-14T23:40:09Z

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	*Why did the author of the ''Letter to a CES Director'' choose to avoid including John Whitmer's clear statement about handling the plates?		*Why did the author of the ''Letter to a CES Director'' choose to avoid including John Whitmer's clear statement about handling the plates?
	*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?		*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?
	{{endnotes ~~sources~~}}
			== ==
			{{endnotes label}}
			<references/>
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RogerNicholson at 23:38, 14 September 2014

2014-09-14T23:38:39Z

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	The portion extracted by the author of the ''Letter'' is <span style="color:blue">highlighted in blue</span>. The portion that he ignored is <span style="color:red">highlighted in red</span>:		The portion extracted by the author of the ''Letter'' is <span style="color:blue">highlighted in blue</span>. The portion that he ignored is <span style="color:red">highlighted in red</span>:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	“[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: <span style="color:red">‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings],</span> and [said] <span style="color:blue">‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power;’</span> he acknowledged all.”		“[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: <span style="color:red">‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings],</span> and [said] <span style="color:blue">‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power;’</span> he acknowledged all.” <ref>''History of the Church'' Vol. 3, Ch. 21, p. 307-308</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

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	*Why did the author of the ''Letter to a CES Director'' choose to avoid including John Whitmer's clear statement about handling the plates?		*Why did the author of the ''Letter to a CES Director'' choose to avoid including John Whitmer's clear statement about handling the plates?
	*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?		*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?
			{{endnotes sources}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>

RogerNicholson at 23:37, 14 September 2014

2014-09-14T23:37:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:37, 14 September 2014
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	*Why did the author of the ''Letter to a CES Director'' choose to avoid including John Whitmer's clear statement about handling the plates?		*Why did the author of the ''Letter to a CES Director'' choose to avoid including John Whitmer's clear statement about handling the plates?
	*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?		*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?
			</onlyinclude>

RogerNicholson: /* The reality */

2014-09-14T23:36:52Z

The reality

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	===The reality===		===The reality===
	John Whitmer actually ''confirms'' that he saw and handled the plates. All we have to do is look at the very same source. Whitmer states:		This quote from John Whitmer actually ''confirms'' that he saw and handled the plates. All we have to do is look at the very same source. Whitmer states:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings]		‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings]

RogerNicholson: Created page with "{{FMA |title=John Whitmer in History of the Church Vol. 3, Ch. 21, p. 307-308. }} ===The citation=== The original ''Letter to a CES Director'' presents the follo..."

2014-09-14T23:36:29Z

Created page with "{{FMA |title=John Whitmer in History of the Church Vol. 3, Ch. 21, p. 307-308. }} <onlyinclude> ===The citation=== The original ''Letter to a CES Director'' presents the follo..."

New page

{{FMA
|title=John Whitmer in History of the Church Vol. 3, Ch. 21, p. 307-308.
}}
<onlyinclude>
===The citation===
The original ''Letter to a CES Director'' presents the following quote from John Whitmer, one of the Eight Witnesses, in order to demonstrate the Whitmer did not actually see the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated:
<blockquote>
“They were shown to me by a supernatural power”
– History of the Church Vol. 3, Ch. 21, p. 307-308
</blockquote>

===The reality===
John Whitmer actually ''confirms'' that he saw and handled the plates. All we have to do is look at the very same source. Whitmer states:
<blockquote>
‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings]
</blockquote>
The portion extracted by the author of the ''Letter'' is highlighted in blue. The portion that he ignored is highlighted in red:
<blockquote>
“[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: ‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings], and [said] ‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power;’ he acknowledged all.”
</blockquote>

===Questions===
*Why did the author of the ''Letter to a CES Director'' choose to avoid including John Whitmer's clear statement about handling the plates?
*Why did he only include the small portion of the quote that supported his position?