ReedComire: /* Did Joseph Smith invent the doctrine of "baptism of the dead", or was it a doctrine of Early Christianity or Judaism? */

2017-10-30T05:46:26Z

Did Joseph Smith invent the doctrine of "baptism of the dead", or was it a doctrine of Early Christianity or Judaism?

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	==Baptism of the Dead in the Early Church==		==Baptism of the Dead in the Early Church==

	===Did Joseph Smith invent ~~the doctrine of~~ "baptism of the dead", or was it a doctrine of Early Christianity ~~or Judaism~~?===		{{FME
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			===Did Joseph Smith invent "baptism for the dead", or was it a doctrine of Early Christianity?===
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			<blockquote>Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?{{s\|1\|Corinthians\|15\|29}}</blockquote>

	<blockquote>~~Else what shall they do which~~ are ~~baptized~~ for the dead, if the ~~dead rise not at all? why are~~ they ~~then baptized for~~ the ~~dead?~~{{s\|1\|~~Corinthians~~\|15\|29}}</blockquote>		To Latter-day Saints, this scripture is obvious evidence the Early Church practiced this.

			===We see the baptism for the dead practiced in Early Church break-off groups===

			"St. Chrysostom (A.D. 347-407) tells of hows, when one of their catechumens died without baptism, the Marcionites would place a living person under the dead man’s bed and ask whether he desired to be baptized. The living person would respond in the affirmative and was then baptized as a proxy for the deceased (Homily XL on 1 Corinthians 15)".<ref>"Baptism for the Dead in Early Christianity" by John A. Tvedtnes</ref> (St. Chrysostom did not believe in baptism for the dead, but was referring to its practice.)

			<blockquote>Historical records are clear on the matter. Baptism for the dead was performed by the dominant church until forbidden by the sixth canon of the Council of Carthage in A.D. 397. Some of the smaller sects, however, continued the practice. Of the [Cerinthus]<ref>Author incorrectly used "Marcionites". Also see 'A cyclopædia of biblical literature', ed. by J. Kitto, Volume 1</ref> of the fourth century, Epiphanius wrote:

			"In this country—I mean Asia—and even in Galatia, their school flourished eminently and a traditional fact concerning them has reached us, that when any of them had died without baptism, they used to baptize others in their name, lest in the resurrection they should suffer punishment as unbaptized.” (''Heresies'', 8:7.) <ref>{{Ensign1\|author=John A. Tvedtnes\|article=Proxy Baptism\|date=February 1977\|start=86}}{{link\|url=http://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/02/insights/proxy-baptism?lang=eng}} </ref></blockquote>

			===About 400 A.D., church Councils saw baptism for the dead being practiced, and outlawed it===

			"That baptism for the dead was indeed practiced in some orthodox Christian circles is indicated by the decisions of two late fourth-century councils. The fourth canon (fifth in some lists) of the Synod of Hippo, held in 393, declares 'the Eucharist shall not be given to dead bodies...nor baptism conferred upon them.' The ruling was confirmed four years later in the sixth canon of the Third Council of Carthage."<ref>"Baptism for the Dead in Early Christianity" by John A. Tvedtnes</ref>

			<blockquote>"It also seemed good that the Eucharist should not be given to the bodies of the dead. For it is written: 'Take, Eat', but the bodies of the dead can neither 'take' nor 'eat'. Nor let the ignorance of the presbyters baptize those who are dead."<ref>Council of Carthage (A.D.419), Commonly Called The Code of Canons of the African Church", canon 18</ref> </blockquote>

	~~We know that baptism for~~ the dead ~~was practiced for a long time in the early church. As John A. Tvedtnes has noted:~~		===Early Judaism performed ordinances on behalf of the dead===

	~~Historical records are clear on~~ the ~~matter~~. ~~Baptism for~~ the ~~dead was performed by the dominant church until forbidden by the sixth canon of the Council~~ of ~~Carthage~~ in A.D. ~~397. Some~~ of the ~~smaller sects~~, ~~however~~, ~~continued~~ the ~~practice. Of~~ the ~~[Cerinthians]<ref>The source erroneously refers~~ to ~~the "Marcionites" instead of the "Cerinthians"~~.~~</ref> of the fourth century, Epiphanius wrote:~~		<blockquote>In early Judaism, too, there is an example of ordinances being performed in behalf of the dead. Following the battle of Marisa in 163 B.C., it was discovered that each of the Jewish soldiers killed in the fight had been guilty of concealing pagan idols beneath his clothing. In order to atone for their wrong, Judas Maccabaeus, the Jewish high priest and commander, collected money from the survivors to purchase sacrificial animals for their dead comrades...

	~~<blockquote>~~"~~In this country—I mean Asia—and even in Galatia~~, ~~their school flourished eminently~~ and ~~a traditional fact concerning them has reached us~~, that ~~when any~~ of ~~them~~ had ~~died without baptism~~, ~~they used~~ to ~~baptize others~~ in ~~their name~~, ~~lest in~~ the ~~resurrection~~ they ~~should suffer punishment as unbaptized~~.” (~~''Heresies'', 8~~:7.) <ref>{{Ensign1\|author=John A. Tvedtnes\|article=Proxy Baptism\|date=February 1977\|start=86}}{{link\|url=http://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/02/insights/proxy-baptism?lang=eng}} </ref></blockquote>		"And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachmas of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: for if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.” (2 Maccabees 12:43–46.) <ref>{{Ensign1\|author=John A. Tvedtnes\|article=Proxy Baptism\|date=February 1977\|start=86}}{{link\|url=http://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/02/insights/proxy-baptism?lang=eng}} </ref></blockquote>

	Thus, baptism for the dead was banned about four hundred years after Christ by the church councils. Latter-day Saints would see this as an excellent example of apostasy - church councils altering doctrine and practices of the original church.		===Today===

	~~Tvedtnes~~ continues:		Today, some Christian churches and Jewish customs offer prayers and light candles on behalf of the dead. The Coptic Church of Egypt continues to practice baptism by proxy for deceased members of Coptic families. Also the Neo-Apostolic Church in Europe.<ref>https://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/02/insights/proxy-baptism?lang=eng</ref>

	~~In early Judaism, too, there is an example of ordinances being performed~~ in ~~behalf of the dead. Following the battle of Marisa~~ in ~~163 B~~.~~C., it was discovered~~ that ~~each of the Jewish soldiers killed in~~ the ~~fight had been guilty of concealing pagan idols beneath his clothing~~. ~~In order to atone for their wrong, Judas Maccabaeus, the Jewish high priest~~ and ~~commander~~, ~~collected money from the survivors to purchase sacrificial animals~~ for ~~their dead comrades...~~		===Joseph Smith===
			No major religions in Joseph Smith's day believed in this doctrine. It is highly unlikely that Joseph Smith would have known that the Early Church practiced this. Even if he did read Corinthians and invented this belief from scratch, how did he come up with such a logical reason for its use?

	<blockquote>"And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachmas of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: for if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.” (2 Maccabees 12:~~43–46.) <ref>{{Ensign1\|author=John A. Tvedtnes\|article=Proxy Baptism\|date=February 1977\|start=86}}{{link\|url=http://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/02/insights/proxy-baptism?lang=eng}} </ref></blockquote>~~		[[Category:Early Church]]
			[[Category:Temples]]
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	{{endnotes sources}}		{{endnotes sources}}

ReedComire: Created page with "{{FME |title=Baptism for the Dead |category=Early Church }} NOTOC ==Baptism of the Dead in the Early Church== ===Did Joseph Smith invent the doctrine of "ba..."

2017-10-30T00:20:36Z

Created page with "{{FME |title=Baptism for the Dead |category=Early Church }} __NOTOC__ <onlyinclude> ==Baptism of the Dead in the Early Church== ===Did Joseph Smith invent the doctrine of "ba..."

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{{FME
|title=Baptism for the Dead
|category=Early Church
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<onlyinclude>
==Baptism of the Dead in the Early Church==

===Did Joseph Smith invent the doctrine of "baptism of the dead", or was it a doctrine of Early Christianity or Judaism?===

<blockquote>Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?{{s|1|Corinthians|15|29}}</blockquote>

We know that baptism for the dead was practiced for a long time in the early church. As John A. Tvedtnes has noted:

Historical records are clear on the matter. Baptism for the dead was performed by the dominant church until forbidden by the sixth canon of the Council of Carthage in A.D. 397. Some of the smaller sects, however, continued the practice. Of the [Cerinthians]<ref>The source erroneously refers to the "Marcionites" instead of the "Cerinthians".</ref> of the fourth century, Epiphanius wrote:

<blockquote>"In this country—I mean Asia—and even in Galatia, their school flourished eminently and a traditional fact concerning them has reached us, that when any of them had died without baptism, they used to baptize others in their name, lest in the resurrection they should suffer punishment as unbaptized.” (''Heresies'', 8:7.) <ref>{{Ensign1|author=John A. Tvedtnes|article=Proxy Baptism|date=February 1977|start=86}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/02/insights/proxy-baptism?lang=eng}} </ref></blockquote>

Thus, baptism for the dead was banned about four hundred years after Christ by the church councils. Latter-day Saints would see this as an excellent example of apostasy - church councils altering doctrine and practices of the original church.

Tvedtnes continues:

In early Judaism, too, there is an example of ordinances being performed in behalf of the dead. Following the battle of Marisa in 163 B.C., it was discovered that each of the Jewish soldiers killed in the fight had been guilty of concealing pagan idols beneath his clothing. In order to atone for their wrong, Judas Maccabaeus, the Jewish high priest and commander, collected money from the survivors to purchase sacrificial animals for their dead comrades...

<blockquote>"And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachmas of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: for if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.” (2 Maccabees 12:43–46.) <ref>{{Ensign1|author=John A. Tvedtnes|article=Proxy Baptism|date=February 1977|start=86}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/02/insights/proxy-baptism?lang=eng}} </ref></blockquote>
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{{endnotes sources}}

Baptism For The Dead - Revision history

ReedComire: /* Did Joseph Smith invent the doctrine of "baptism of the dead", or was it a doctrine of Early Christianity or Judaism? */

ReedComire: Created page with "{{FME |title=Baptism for the Dead |category=Early Church }} __NOTOC__ ==Baptism of the Dead in the Early Church== ===Did Joseph Smith invent the doctrine of "ba..."

ReedComire: Created page with "{{FME |title=Baptism for the Dead |category=Early Church }} NOTOC ==Baptism of the Dead in the Early Church== ===Did Joseph Smith invent the doctrine of "ba..."