Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Chapter 6

Response to claims made in "Chapter 6: Witnesses to the Golden Plates"


Claims made in "Chapter 5: Moroni and 'The Golden Pot'"
A work by author: Grant Palmer
 Claims made in "Chapter 7: Priesthood Restoration"

These ideas may have been Joseph's inspiration for making a plate-like object to persuade belief.
—An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, p. 207

∗       ∗       ∗

175 - The author claims that the Book of Mormon witnesses had a "magical mindset" and believed in "second sight"

From An Insiders View of Mormon Origins:

The author claims that the Book of Mormon witnesses had a "magical mindset" and believed in "second sight"

FairMormon Response


Question: Is someone unreliable because they practiced "treasure hunting" and believed in the use of seer stones to find lost objects?

To imply that someone is unreliable simply because of things that they believed were valid is a ad hominem attack

Some of Joseph Smith's associates practiced "treasure hunting" and believed in the use of seer stones to locate lost objects. Some claim that many of these individuals believed in "second sight." Do these characteristics make these men unreliable witnesses?

Those who accuse people of being unreliable witnesses because they believed in "treasure hunting" or "second sight" are employing what is known as a "ad hominem" attack on the witnesses' character. The term "ad hominem" is defined, according to Merriam-Webster, as:

  1. appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect.
  2. marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made.

One can see that this accusation applies both of these definitions:

  1. The terms "treasure hunter" and "second sight" are intended to evoke feelings of prejudice in the 21st-century reader. We typically reject such things as "superstition." Applying these attitudes to how we view 19th-century individuals is called "presentisim."
  2. One critic implies that, despite the fact that the witnesses never denied what they said, that "in light of their superstitions and reputations," we will somehow find their testimony to have less value. The witnesses, incidentally, had reputations for honesty. [1]

How exactly does the belief that one can locate buried treasure by means of a seer stone speak to one's character or honesty?

Some have claimed that this rebuttal is a misapplication of the ad-hominem fallacy. It's easy to claim that an ad-hominem fallacy is misapplied by invoking the fallacy fallacy, which means that an argument can still be true even if it contains a logical fallacy. Thus, even if it's an ad hominem attack, it may still be true and necessary for evaluating someone! This is a common counterclaim to make when an interlocutor accuses you of ad hominem. But let's revert to the original argument being made here. The original argument states that the witnesses are unreliable because some of them hunted for treasure occasionally. It is ad hominem to claim this and does not address the consistency of the witnesses, even when their feelings for Joseph turned sour at different points of their lives. It does not address the multiplicity of occasions when they went on record to testify, the occasions when they went our of their way to correct their testimony when misrepresented by the public press, the both tangible and revelatory nature of their experience, the witnesses other than the 11 that saw the plates and handled them, and so forth. The argument is bunk.

All Three Witnesses left the Church after disagreements with Joseph Smith, yet they never denied having seen the plates and the angel

One must also consider this: The Three Witnesses all left the Church after serious disagreements with Joseph Smith, and yet never denied that they had seen the plates and the angel, even near the end of their lives.

The fact that three different men allowed their name to be printed below a statement saying that they saw an angel, and then continued to affirm that they had seen the angel in public statements (some of them even published in newspapers) until the end of their lives, tends to tip the scale more toward "it really happened" than "it didn't happen." That's the point of a signed statement after all.

Is someone's ability to see something affected by their seeing something else?

As it regards the witnesses, the extent to which any were involved is not certain. Even among historians today, the extent to which Joseph Smith was involved is in dispute. It was originally the idea of his father to undertake the practice. It is in doubt if many of the witnesses were involved at all in treasure seeking. For instance, there is no record of the Whitmers being involved in treasure seeking and magic before the organization of the Church (Not to say that they absolutely weren't. Just that there is no evidence.)But let's think of it this way

As it regards the eight witnesses, even if all of them were treasure hunters, is their ability to see something affected by their seeing something else? It's just a silly question to imply that these eight men can't look at a physical object with their physical eyes when they looked at something else with their physical eye. According to John Whitmer, none of them ever denied seeing the physical plates with their physical eyes.

In the case of the three witnesses, some people have suggested that these men may have hallucinated their experience or only seen things with their "spiritual eyes". Aside from "spiritual eyes" being scriptural language that they were commanded to use, there has never been documented case in the history of scrying of two people hallucinating the same thing at the same time.[2]

It strains credulity to suggest that these men could do that and hold their testimony of the Book of Mormon after falling away from Joseph and the Church.

The following video introduces all witnesses, both formal and informal, to the Book of Mormon, examines several of the hardest-hitting claims against them, and demonstrates the emergent strength of their composite testimonials.

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175-176, n2-4

Claim
  • The witnesses believed in the ability to see spirits and their dwelling places within the local hills.

Author's source(s)
Response

178, n7-8

The author(s) make(s) the following claim:

The author claims that Martin Harris participated in his own "treasure adventures" after meeting Joseph Smith.

Author's sources:
  • Ole A. Jensen, "Testimony Given to Ole A. Jensen by Martin Harris," July 1875,3, archives, Historical Department, Church ofJesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City (hereafter LDS archives); quoted in Dan Vogel, Early Mormon Documents 2:376.
  • Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 19:37.
  • Brigham Young, Office Journal, 21 Nov. 1861, LDS archives.

FAIR's Response

Question: What did Martin Harris's non-Mormon associates say about his character?

Even early anti-Mormons who knew Harris believed that he was “honest,” and “industrious,” “benevolent,” and a “worthy citizen”

Even early anti-Mormons who knew Harris, or knew those acquainted with Harris, believed that he was “honest,” and “industrious,” “benevolent,” and a “worthy citizen.” [3] Wrote the local paper on Harris' departure with the Saints:

Several families, numbering about fifty souls, took up their line of march from this town last week for the “promised land,” among whom was Martin Harris, one of the original believers in the “Book of Mormon.” Mr. Harris was among the early settlers of this town, and has ever borne the character of an honorable and upright man, and an obliging and benevolent neighbor. He had secured to himself by honest industry a respectable fortune—and he has left a large circle of acquaintances and friends to pity his delusion.[4]

Pomeroy Tucker, who knew Harris but didn’t believe in the Book of Mormon, once noted:

How to reconcile the act of Harris in signing his name to such a statement [his Book of Mormon testimony], in view of the character of honesty which had always been conceded to him, could never easily be explained. [5]

Martin Harris's association with a number of LDS "splinter groups"

Some have argued that Harris' tendency to associate with a number of LDS "splinter groups" indicates that he was "unstable and easily influenced by charismatic leaders." [6]

This claim fundamentally distorts Harris' activities during this period. [7] Wrote Matthew Roper:

Martin was excommunicated in December 1837 in Kirtland, Ohio, where he remained for the next thirty-two years. During this time, Harris associated himself with Warren Parrish and other Kirtland dissenters who organized a church. On March 30, 1839, George A. Smith wrote a letter from Kirtland describing some of the divisions in the Parrish party. "Last Sabbath a division arose among the Parrish party about the Book of Mormon; John F. Boynton, Warren Parrish, Luke Johnson and others said it was nonsense. Martin Harris then bore testimony of its truth and said all would be damned if they rejected it." Such actions suggest a significant degree of independence for which Harris is generally not given credit. [8]

Harris managed to frustrate many other religious groups by his continued insistence on preaching the Book of Mormon instead of their tenets. He eventually returned to the Church and died in full fellowship.

The witnesses were men considered honest, responsible, and intelligent. Their contemporaries did not know quite what to make of three such men who testified of angels and gold plates, but they did not impugn the character or reliability of the men who bore that testimony.

Events used to impugn Martin Harris' character

"Such characters as McLellin, John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris, are too mean to mention; and we had liked to have forgotten them."

Some critics have used a December 1838 quote from the Prophet Joseph Smith to impugn the character of the Witnesses to the Book of Mormon. The above is the standard representation of this quote. Joseph Smith wrote to the Saints on 16 December 1838 to provide comfort to the them and update them on his current condition in Liberty Jail:

To the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Caldwell county, and all the Saints who are scattered abroad, who are persecuted, and made desolate, and who are afflicted in divers manners for Christ's sake and the Gospel's, by the hands of a cruel mob and the tyrannical disposition of the authorities of this state; and whose perils are greatly augmented by the wickedness and corruption of false brethren, greeting: May grace, mercy, and the peace of God be and abide with you; and notwithstanding all your sufferings, we assure you that you have our prayers and fervent desires for your welfare, day and night. We believe that that God who seeth us in this solitary place, will hear our prayers, and reward you openly.

Know assuredly, dear brethren, that it is for the testimony of Jesus that we are in bonds and in prison. But we say unto you, that we consider that our condition is better (notwithstanding our sufferings) than that of those who have persecuted us, and smitten us, and borne false witness against us; and we most assuredly believe that those who do bear false witness against us, do seem to have a great triumph over us for the present. [9]

By this time, all of the three witnesses had fallen away from the Church after severe disagreements with Joseph Smith. This is why Joseph Smith published the comment in the letter—Joseph was angry with them:

Was it for committing adultery that we were assailed? We are aware that that false slander has gone abroad, for it has been reiterated in our ears. These are falsehoods also. Renegade "Mormon" dissenters are running through the world and spreading various foul and libelous reports against us, thinking thereby to gain the friendship of the world, because they know that we are not of the world, and that the world hates us; therefore they [the world] make a tool of these fellows [the dissenters]; and by them try to do all the injury they can, and after that they hate them worse than they do us, because they find them to be base traitors and sycophants.

Such characters God hates; we cannot love them. The world hates them, and we sometimes think that the devil ought to be ashamed of them.

We have heard that it is reported by some, that some of us should have said, that we not only dedicated our property, but our families also to the Lord; and Satan, taking advantage of this, has perverted it into licentiousness, such as a community of wives, which is an abomination in the sight of God.

When we consecrate our property to the Lord it is to administer to the wants of the poor and needy, for this is the law of God; it is not for the benefit of the rich, those who have no need; and when a man consecrates or dedicates his wife and children, he does not give them to his brother, or to his neighbor, for there is no such law: for the law of God is, Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife. He that looketh upon a woman to lust after her, has committed adultery already in his heart. Now for a man to consecrate his property, wife and children, to the Lord, is nothing more nor less than to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the widow and fatherless, the sick and afflicted, and do all he can to administer to their relief in their afflictions, and for him and his house to serve the Lord. In order to do this, he and all his house must be virtuous, and must shun the very appearance of evil.

[Page 231]

Now if any person has represented anything otherwise than what we now write, he or she is a liar, and has represented us falsely—and this is another manner of evil which is spoken against us falsely.[10]

It is on this page that we get the quote from Joseph referencing the men specifically. Notice how he states only that they are "mean" and nothing more:

And now, brethren, we say unto you—what more can we enumerate? Is not all manner of evil of every description spoken of us falsely, yea, we say unto you falsely. We have been misrepresented and misunderstood, and belied, and the purity and integrity and uprightness of our hearts have not been known—and it is through ignorance—yea, the very depths of ignorance is the cause of it; and not only ignorance, but on the part of some, gross wickedness and hypocrisy also; for some, by a long face and sanctimonious prayers, and very pious sermons, had power to lead the minds of the ignorant and unwary, and thereby obtain such influence that when we approached their iniquities the devil gained great advantage—would bring great trouble and sorrow upon our heads; and, in fine, we have waded through an ocean of tribulation and mean abuse, practiced upon us by the ill bred and the ignorant, such as Hinkle, Corrill, Phelps, Avard, Reed Peck, Cleminson, and various others, who are so very ignorant that they cannot appear respectable in any decent and civilized society, and whose eyes are full of adultery, and cannot cease from sin. Such characters as McLellin, John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris, are too mean to mention; and we had liked to have forgotten them. Marsh and "another," whose hearts are full of corruption, whose cloak of hypocrisy was not sufficient to shield them or to hold them up in the hour of trouble, who after having escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, became again entangled and overcome—their latter end is worse than the first. But it has happened unto them according to the word of the Scripture: "The dog has returned to his vomit, and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."[11]

Pledging Loyalty to a Seeress who used a Black Seer Stone?

One critic claims that "During the summer of 1837, while in Kirtland, David Whitmer, Martin Harris, and Oliver pledged their new loyalty to a prophetess who used a black seer stone and danced herself into 'trances.'[12]"

The author's source is "Biographical Sketches, Lucy Mack Smith, p. 211-213". Following the source we read this:

At this time a certain young woman, who was living at David Whitmer’s, uttered a prophecy, which she said was given her, by looking through a black stone that she had found. This prophecy gave some altogether a new idea of things.
She said, the reason why one-third of the Church would turn away from Joseph, was because that he was in transgression himself; that he would fall from his office on account of the same; that David Whitmer, or Martin Harris would fill Joseph’s place; and that the one who did not succeed him, would be the Counsellor to the one that did.
This girl soon became an object of great attention among those who were disaffected. Dr. Williams, the ex-justice of the peace,became her scribe, and wrote her revelations for her.
Jared Carter, who lived in the same house with David Whitmer, soon imbibed the same spirit, and I was informed, that he said in one of their meetings, that he had power to raise “Joe Smith” to the highest heavens, or sink him down to the lowest hell.
Shortly after this, Jared came to our house, and I questioned him relative to what he had said concerning Joseph. Not having mentioned the matter to my husband, he did not understand what I meant at first; but after a little explanation, he warned Jared to repent of the injudicious course that he was taking, and speedily confess his sins to the Church, or the judgments of God would overtake him. Jared received this admonition, and acknowledging his fault, agreed to confess to the brethren, the first opportunity.
The next morning he was seized with a violent pain in his eyes, and continued in great distress for two days. On the evening of the second day, he arose from his bed, and, kneeling down, besought the Lord to heal him, covenanting to make a full confession to the Church at meeting the next Sunday.
Accordingly, the next Sabbath he arose and stated to the brethren that he had done wrong; and, asking their forgiveness, begged to be received again into their confidence. He did not, however, state what he had done that was wrong; nevertheless his confession was received, and he was forgiven.
But the rest of his party continued obstinate. They still held their secret meetings at David Whitmer’s, and when the young woman, who was their instructress, was through giving what revelations she intended for the evening, she would jump out of her chair and dance over the floor, boasting of her power, until she was perfectly exhausted. Her proselytes would also, in the most vehement manner, proclaim their purity and holiness, and the mighty power which they were going to have.
They made a standing appointment for meetings to be held every Thursday, by the pure Church in the house of the Lord.
They also circulated a paper, in order to ascertain how many would follow them, and it was found, that a great proportion of the Church were decidedly in favour of the new party.
In this spirit they went to Missouri, and contaminated the minds of many of the brethren against Joseph, in order to destroy his influence.
This made it more necessary than ever, to keep a strict guard at the houses of those who were the chief objects of their vengeance.

There is no mention of Martin Harris in this account. Thus we can only conclude that the author misinterpreted (whether deliberately or not we won't say) his sources.

"...became partially deranged or shattered, as many believed, flying from one thing to another, as if reason and common sense were thrown off their balance...

One critic wrote:

As mentioned previously, Martin had a reputation for extreme superstition and was generally known as an unstable, gullible, and inconsistent individual.

Mormon writers have conceded as much. In the Church’s Millennial Star it was noted that Martin “was filled with the rage and madness of a demon” and “one day he would be one thing, and another day another thing.” Martin “became partially deranged or shattered, as many believed, flying from one thing to another, as if reason and common sense were thrown off their balance.”

The article continues on with Martin’s dishonesty and immoral and inconsistent character.

The author's source is "Millenial Star, November 15, 1846, Sketches of Notorious Characters, p. 124-125."

The author seems to think that the Saints thought of him as deranged. The quote, in context is clearly referring to the Saints' perception that Martin was possessed by a very real Devil or false Spirit. They believed in him as an honest and upright man. Thus, this is not so much as an observation of his supposed "superstitious nature", but of the sadness and anger they expressed when they saw an honest, upright, respectable gentleman taken in by evil influences and left the Church they loved and which he helped found.

Hurlbut Affidavits

Main article: Question: What did the Hurlbut affidavits say about Martin Harris?

Conclusion

All of these incidences beg questions:

  1. Why would Joseph risk angering these men further if he knew that they could expose him?
  2. Why didn't they expose him and instead go to their deathbeds (and in the case of Harris and Whitmer never returning to the Church) testifying that the work was true?
  3. Why did they always hold firm to their testimony to the Book of Mormon even when harassed by members of the Church and Joseph Smith himself after leaving it?

These are all, in the end, testaments to the strength and integrity of the witnesses in general and their integrity as witnesses to truth. They held true to their testimony even in the face of great temptation. That—in and of itself—is testimony to their reliability.



178, n9-10

Claim
  • Martin Harris said that he "informed Joseph Smith about the gold plates" and that he could see the gold plates through a cloth.

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, interview by Joel Tiffany, Jan. 1859, in "Mormonism," Tiffany's Monthly (New York City) 5 (Aug. 1859): 166; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:306.
  • Martin Harris, interview by John A. Clark, 1828, in "Modern Superstition-The Mormonites," The Visitor, or Monthly Instructor, for 1841, 239; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:270.
Response

179

Claim
  • The Whitmers all believed that they could see things with stones and dowsing sticks.

Response

179, n11-12

Claim
  • The author claims that Oliver Cowdery was a treasure hunter and "rodsman" before he met Joseph Smith, and that William Cowdery (Oliver's father) was associated with a treasure seeking group in Vermont.

Author's source(s)
  • Vogel, "Barnes Frisbie Account," Early Mormon Documents, 1:599-621.
  • Book of Commandments 7:3 (1833), in Wilford C. Wood, ed., Joseph Smith Begins His Work: The Book of Commandments, 2 vols. (Salt Lake City: by the Author, 1962), vol. 2; d. D&C 8:6-8.
Response

179, n13

Claim
  • Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris saw the plates in a vision before meeting Joseph Smith.

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, interview by Joel Tiffany, Jan. 1859, in "Mormonism," Tiffany's Monthly (New York City) 5 (Aug. 1859): 166; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:306.
  • Dean C. Jessee, ed., The Papers of Joseph Smith: Autobiographical and Historical Writings (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1989), 1: 10.
Response

181

Claim
  • David and possibly John Whitmer owned seer stones.

Author's source(s)
Response
 FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources

186

Claim
  • According to the author, Brigham Young heard from the Smiths and believed all his life that "these treasures that are in the earth are carefully watched; they can be removed from place to place" by the angels. (emphasis added)

Author's source(s)
Response
  • The author takes a quote spoken by Brigham Young in 1877 in which he discourages prospecting for minerals in Utah, and implies that his belief regarding "moving treasure" originated with "the Smiths." Brigham goes on to talk about the difficulty in obtaining treasures from the earth, and relates a story involving Porter Rockwell as well as a story he heard from Oliver Cowdery about how the plates were returned to the angel Moroni. Nowhere in his discourse does Brigham mention "the Smiths."

186

Claim
  • The Smith's often told neighbors stories about treasures Joseph found in the earth.

Author's source(s)
  • Jesse Smith to Hyrum Smith, 17 June 1829, Joseph Smith Letterbook, 2:59-61, LDS archives; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 1:552.
Response

188

Claim
  • Joseph claimed to know the location of Captain Kidd's treasure.

Author's source(s)
  • Statement of W. R. Hine in Deming, Naked Truths 1 Jan. 1888): 2.
Response

191

Claim
  • A number of witnesses saw a cave in the Hill Cumorah when the plates were returned to the angel.

Author's source(s)
  • Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 19:38..
  • Wilford Woodruff's journal, 1833-98, typescript, ed. Scott G. Kenny, 9 vols. (Midvale, UT: Signature Books, 1984), 11 Dec. 1869, 6:508-9.
Response

194

Claim
  • Martin Harris said that marvelous things appeared to Hyrum, Joseph Sr. and Joseph Jr. while they were treasure hunting.

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, Tiffany's Monthly 5 (Aug. 1859): 165; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:305.
Response

194-195

Claim
  • The gold plates that the "witnesses" saw are said to have disappeared when placed on the ground at the hill Cumorah.

Author's source(s)
Response

195

Claim
  • The witnesses believed that there was a toad the turned into something else hiding in the box that held the plates.

Author's source(s)
Response

197, n57

Claim
  • The author claims that the testimony of the Three Witnesses was of a vision rather than an actual visit by an angel.

Author's source(s)
  • Jessee, Papers of Joseph Smith 1:296.
Response

197-198, n58-61

Claim
  • It is claimed that David Whitmer indicated that the visit of the angel was spiritual rather than real.

Author's source(s)
  • James Henry Moyle, Journal, 28 June 1885,James Henry Moyle Papers, F508:1, LDS archives.
  • Nibley, Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, 92-95.
  • David Whitmer, interview by Zenas H. Gurley Jr., 14 Jan. 1885, typescript, 04681, LDS archives.
  • David Whitmer, interview by Edmund C. Briggs, in "Letter from Edmund C. Briggs to Joseph Smith III," 4 June 1884, Saints' Herald, 21 June 1884, 396
  • David Whitmer, interview by Edward Stevenson, Journal, 22 Dec. 1877,4806:2, LDS archives.
  • David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ,32
  • Francis Kirkham, A New Witness for Christ in America, 2:349-50.
Response

198, n62-64

Claim
  • Martin Harris claimed to see the plates with "the eye of faith."

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, interview by Anthony Metcalf, ca. 1873, in Ten Years before the Mast 70; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:346-47.
  • Martin Harris, quoted in The Visitor, or Monthly Instructor, for 1841, 239; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:270.
  • Marvin S. Hill, "Secular or Sectarian History? A Critique of No Man Knows My History, Church History 43 (Mar. 1974): 92-93; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:385, 526.
Response

198, n65

Claim
  • Some of the three witnesses claimed that they handled the plates during the angel's visit.

Author's source(s)
  • 65. Lucy Smith, "Preliminary Manuscript," in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 1:395.
Response
 FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources

200, n72-73

Claim
  • David Whitmer is said to have claimed that he handled the plates in vision, but not physically.

Author's source(s)
  • Moyle, Journal, 28 June 1885.
  • Nibley, Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, 94-95.
Response

204, n83

Claim
  • The author claims that the testimony of the Eight Witnesses does not actually describe a physical incident.

Author's source(s)
  • Stephen Burnett to Lyman E. Johnson, 15 Apr. 1838, Joseph Smith Letterbook, 2:64-66, d155/2:2, LDS archives; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:288-93.
Response

204-205, n84

Claim
  • Martin Harris is said to have claimed that none of the witnesses saw or handled the plates.

Author's source(s)
  • Warren Parrish to E. Holmes, 11 Aug. 1838, The Evangelist, 1 Oct. 1838,226.
Response

206

Claim
  • The Eight Witnesses are claimed to have "hesitated to sign" their testimony because their experience was not physical.

Author's source(s)
  • Reference for phrase "hesitated to sign" is related to earlier note 83, page 204. Stephen Burnett to Lyman E. Johnson, 15 Apr. 1838, Joseph Smith Letterbook, 2:64-66, d155/2:2, LDS archives; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:288-93.
Response

206

Claim
  • The author claims that the gold plates belong to another world rather than this one.

Author's source(s)
  • Author's opinion.
Response

206, n89

Claim
  • The author claims that the plates were able to sink and glide through the ground and made noise as they were "rumbling" through the hill.

Author's source(s)
  • Martin Harris, quoted in John A. Clark, "Modern Superstition-The Mormonites," 63; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:265.
  • Affidavit of Willard Chase, 11 Dec. 1833, in Eber D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, OH, 1834), 242. (Affidavits examined).
  • Lucy Smith, History of Joseph Smith, 83-84.
Response

206-207, n90

Claim
  • Viewing the gold plates "too soon" would cause physical death.

Author's source(s)
  • Joseph Smith-History 1:42.
  • Affidavit of Sophia Lewis, 20 Mar. 1834, Susquehanna Register, 1 May 1834, 1.
  • Eber D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, OH, 1834), 272. (Affidavits examined).
Response

207, n91

Claim
  • According to the author, declarations of the witnesses "sounded more physical than was intended."

Author's source(s)
  • Moses 6:36.
  • D&C 67:10; 131:7.
  • Lucy Smith, History of Joseph Smith, 92.
Response

207

Claim
  •  Author's quote: These ideas may have been Joseph's inspiration for making a plate-like object to persuade belief.

Author's source(s)
  • Author's speculation.
Response

211, n94

Claim
  • Joseph is claimed to have appointed James Strang as his successor.

Author's source(s)
  • James J. Strang, "Letter from Joseph Smith to James J. Strang," 18 June 1844, in Voree [WI] Herald 1 (Jan. 1846).
Response

208, n95

Claim
  • James Strang also produced witnesses to metal plates.

Author's source(s)
  • James J. Strang, "Revelation Given to James J. Strang," 1 Sept. 1845, Voree Herald 1 Gan. 1846): [3-4]; Van Noord, King of Beaver Island, 33-35.
Response

212, n105

Claim
  • All the living witnesses except Oliver Cowdery accepted James Strang's leadership.

Author's source(s)
  • "Kirtland," in Voree Herald 1 (Sept. 1846): [4]
Response

Further reading

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{{To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition}} To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition edit
{{To learn more box:''Under the Banner of Heaven''}} To learn more about responses to: Under the Banner of Heaven edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Price}} To learn more about responses to: Robert Price edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon}} To learn more about responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ashamed of Joseph}} To learn more about responses to: Ashamed of Joseph edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Moser}} To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Moser edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Parrish}} To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Parrish edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Benjamin Park}} To learn more about responses to: Benjamin Park edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith}} To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon}} To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: ''Big Love''}} To learn more about responses to: Big Love edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Brett Metcalfe}} To learn more about responses to: Brett Metcalfe edit
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  1. ↑ Jeremy Runnells, "Letter to a CES Director" (original draft posted on the critical website "FutureMissionary.com") (2013)
  2. ↑ See Theodore Besterman, Crystal-gazing: a study in the history, distribution, theory and practice of scrying (London: W. Rider & son, 1924), 123. As he writes: “What is perhaps the most interesting of these miscellaneous phenomena can be best described as collective scrying, coming under the general head of simultaneous hallucination. In such a case two or more persons simultaneously see approximately the same vision in the speculum. The qualification is necessary, for in none of the best attested and detailed instances of such visions did the scryers see precisely the same vision. This forms the most puzzling of the various aspects of this puzzling matter.” The closest that someone has gotten to documenting such a case was Grant H. Palmer, Insider's View of Mormon Origins (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2002), 194. Palmer writes: "Alan Taylor, director of the Institute of Early American History and Culture, has observed that treasure-seeking groups of that era often encountered spectral apparitions and sinking treasure chests. With expectations high, a suggestion from one participant would trigger a group vision, according to his research. Taylor found that years later some of these groups, still believing their experiences were real, would not deny then and never had." Palmer is citing Alan Taylor, "The Early Republic's Supernatural Economy: Treasure Seeking in the American Northeast, 1780-1830," American Quarterly 38 (Spring 1986): 13-14. There are two issues here. First, the insinuation that the power of suggestion could explain a group vision like that of the witnesses. It's perhaps possible; but look at the elaborate circumstances Taylor describes that produce that right atmosphere: "These supernatural encounters were very "real" to those who experienced them. Childhood exposure to treasure tales and their careful performance of elaborate ceremonies at the digging site created a nervous expectation to see the extraordinary. Long hours of strenuous, nighttime digging by flickering lanterns in dark, remote, and cold locales engendered exhaustion. Adherence to strict procedures, especially the rule of silence, produced sustained tension. Finally, seekers tended to bring along a generous supply of alcohol and drank freely to fortify their nerves and warm their bodies. These circumstances developed their anxiously expectant frame of mind to the point that one participant's suggestion, or any unexpected sight or sound, could trigger a group hallucination. Subsequent, repeated narration to others rapidly confirmed, refined, and elaborated the experience." There is no evidence that the witnesses experience was anything like this. It was the middle of the day, in the summer and thus experienced no dark, cold exhaustion. There is no elaborate or strict procedures described for the witnesses experience other then their praying for the experience to occur. The instructions for the witnesses in the contemporary revelations (D&C 5, 17) are also not nearly so elaborate or convoluted. Basic instructions are given in them such as to humble oneself before the Lord and testify to what you see. Absent are injunctions to remain silent to produce suspense or anything else described by Taylor. The second key issue is the assertion by Palmer that “years later some of these groups, still believing their experiences were real, would not deny then and never had.” The evidence cited for this assertion is a 1867 chronicler’s assertion that a Mr. Savage stood by his conviction of his experiences (what exactly those are is not made clear in the article) “as long as he lived,” and could not be “ridiculed out of it.” Note, of course, that Mr. Savage is an individual, not a group. So a single person never denied his experiences (whatever they were) his entire life. The other evidence is from Martin Harris’s Tiffany’s interview. While this is Martin talking about it years later, the conversations he was reporting with money diggers were contemporary with their digging activities. We have no idea if any of the people Martin spoke to “never denied” their experiences, because there is zero follow-up with them in the historical record. These people, like Taylor describes, would have been under elaborate and stressful psychological conditions in order to produce these visions. With the witnesses to the Book of Mormon plates, we have documented testimony of their experience that we can easily examine, held up in that documentary record over a long, long period of time, and we have no evidence that they were placed in unideal psychological circumstances prior to their vision. Palmer then states in a citation: ""For a detailed description of a company of seven men who never denied that they viewed a guardian and his "glittering" metal treasure, see Daniel P. [Judge] Thompson , May Martin: Or the Money Diggers. A Green Mountain Tale (London: J. Clements Lytle, 1841, 19-22." This assertion is patently absurd by Palmer, since May Martin is a fictional novel.
  3. ↑ Richard Lloyd Anderson, Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1981), 96–98. ISBN 0877478465.
  4. ↑ “Several families . . .,” Wayne Sentinel (Palmyra, New York) (27 May 1831). off-site
  5. ↑ Pomeroy Tucker, Palmyra Courier (24 May 1872); cited by Richard Lloyd Anderson, Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1981), 104. ISBN 0877478465.
  6. ↑ Tanner and Tanner, "Roper Attacks Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?" 14.
  7. ↑ Richard Lloyd Anderson, Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1981), 167–170. ISBN 0877478465.
  8. ↑ Matthew Roper, "Comments on the Book of Mormon Witnesses: A Response to Jerald and Sandra Tanner," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 2/2 (1993). [164–193] link; citing Letter of George A. Smith to Josiah Fleming, 30 March 1838, Kirtland, Ohio.
  9. ↑ Joseph Smith "The Prophet's Letter to the Church" 16 December 1838 in History of the Church Vol 3: Ch 15: P 226 (ed.) Brigham H. Roberts off-site
  10. ↑ Ibid, 230-31
  11. ↑ Ibid, 231
  12. ↑ Jeremy Runnells, Debunking FairMormon under "Witnesses"
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