Difference between revisions of "Mormonism and Wikipedia/Golden plates/Background"

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Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."
 
Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."
 
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#*{{Harvtxt|Bennett|1893}}. The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century [[New England]] is described in {{Harvtxt|Quinn|1998|pp=25–26}}.
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#{{Harvtxt|Bennett|1893}}. The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century [[New England]] is described in {{Harvtxt|Quinn|1998|pp=25–26}}.
 
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Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.
 
Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.
 
|authorsources=<br>
 
|authorsources=<br>
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#*{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838b|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").
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#{{Harvtxt|Smith|1838b|pp=42–43}} (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").
 
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Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white [[stovepipe hat]], putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.
 
Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white [[stovepipe hat]], putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.
 
|authorsources=<br>
 
|authorsources=<br>
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#*{{Harvtxt|Harris|1833|pp=253–54}}; {{Harvtxt|Hale|1834|p=265}}; {{Harvtxt|Clark|1842|p=225}}; {{Harvtxt|Turner|1851|p=216}}; {{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=164}}; {{Harvtxt|Tucker|1867|pp=20–21}}; {{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|p=305}}; {{Harvtxt|Lewis|Lewis|1879|p=1}}; {{Harvtxt|Mather|1880|p=199}}; {{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51, 54–55}}.
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#{{Harvtxt|Harris|1833|pp=253–54}}; {{Harvtxt|Hale|1834|p=265}}; {{Harvtxt|Clark|1842|p=225}}; {{Harvtxt|Turner|1851|p=216}}; {{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=164}}; {{Harvtxt|Tucker|1867|pp=20–21}}; {{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|p=305}}; {{Harvtxt|Lewis|Lewis|1879|p=1}}; {{Harvtxt|Mather|1880|p=199}}; {{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51, 54–55}}.
 
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Smith did not consider himself to be a "peeper" or [[crystal gazing|"glass-looker,"]] a practice he called "nonsense."
 
Smith did not consider himself to be a "peeper" or [[crystal gazing|"glass-looker,"]] a practice he called "nonsense."
 
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#*{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51,}},
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#{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51,}},
 
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{{information|Note that Bushman is quoting a secondary source for Joseph's words (Alva Hale), and is demonstrating that Joseph no longer considered himself to be a "peeper" at all. From Bushman, p. 51:
 
{{information|Note that Bushman is quoting a secondary source for Joseph's words (Alva Hale), and is demonstrating that Joseph no longer considered himself to be a "peeper" at all. From Bushman, p. 51:
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Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as [[spiritual gift]]s.
 
Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as [[spiritual gift]]s.
 
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#*{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51}}. [[Lucy Mack Smith]] later remembered that the family did not abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business.  We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."
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#{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51}}. [[Lucy Mack Smith]] later remembered that the family did not abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business.  We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."
 
}}
 
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{{information|Bushman, quoting Lucy Mack Smith (p. 51):
 
{{information|Bushman, quoting Lucy Mack Smith (p. 51):
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Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.
 
Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.
 
|authorsources=<br>
 
|authorsources=<br>
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#*{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51}} Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, ''Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition,'' University of Illinois Press, 11.
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#{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|pp=50–51}} Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, ''Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition,'' University of Illinois Press, 11.
 
}}
 
}}
 
*{{WikipediaCITE|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276165915&oldid=276090534}}  
 
*{{WikipediaCITE|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276165915&oldid=276090534}}  
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He came to view [[Seer stones (Latter Day Saints)|seeing with a stone]] in religious terms as the work of a "seer",
 
He came to view [[Seer stones (Latter Day Saints)|seeing with a stone]] in religious terms as the work of a "seer",
 
|authorsources=<br>
 
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#*{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|p=51}}.
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#{{Harvtxt|Bushman|2005|p=51}}.
 
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and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a [[prophet]].
 
and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a [[prophet]].
 
|authorsources=<br>
 
|authorsources=<br>
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#*Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.
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#Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.
 
}}
 
}}
 
*{{WikipediaOR|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276178504&oldid=276176417}}  
 
*{{WikipediaOR|editor=COgden|wikipedialink=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golden_plates&diff=276178504&oldid=276176417}}  
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Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,
 
Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,
 
|authorsources=<br>
 
|authorsources=<br>
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#*{{Harvtxt|Roberts|1930|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the LDS Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.
+
#{{Harvtxt|Roberts|1930|p=129}}. Roberts was at the time the official historian of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the LDS Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.
 
}}
 
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{{information|Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the ''Friend'':
 
{{information|Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the ''Friend'':
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found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.
 
found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.
 
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#*{{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=163}}; {{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|pp=305–306}}. The stone was found in either 1819 ({{Harvnb|Tucker|1867|pp=19–20}} {{Harvnb|Bennett|1893}}) or 1822 {{Harv|Chase|1833|p=240}}.
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#{{Harvtxt|Harris|1859|p=163}}; {{Harvtxt|Lapham|1870|pp=305–306}}. The stone was found in either 1819 ({{Harvnb|Tucker|1867|pp=19–20}} {{Harvnb|Bennett|1893}}) or 1822 {{Harv|Chase|1833|p=240}}.
 
}}
 
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This stone may still be in the possession of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]].
 
This stone may still be in the possession of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]].
 
|authorsources=<br>
 
|authorsources=<br>
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#*[[Joseph Fielding Smith]] (a former president of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the [[Manti Utah Temple|Manti Temple]] when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3: 225.
+
#[[Joseph Fielding Smith]] (a former president of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the [[Manti Utah Temple|Manti Temple]] when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3: 225.
 
}}
 
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{{information}}
 
{{information}}

Revision as of 16:50, 15 October 2017

FAIR Answers—back to home page

An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Background



Story
A FAIR Analysis of: Wikipedia article "Golden plates", a work by author: Various
 		Finding the plates

An analysis of claims made in the Wikipedia article "Golden plates" - Background


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 Updated 9/21/2011

Section review

Background

Response to claim: "western New York became known as the 'burned-over district' because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

During the Second Great Awakening, Joseph Smith, Jr. lived on his parents' farm near Palmyra, New York. At the time churches in the region contended so vigorously for souls that western New York became known as the "burned-over district" because the fires of religious revivals had burned over it so often.

Author's sources:
  1. Jan Shipps, "Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition," University of Illinois Press, pp. 7

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Response to claim: "Western New York was also noted for its participation in a 'craze for treasure hunting'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Western New York was also noted for its participation in a "craze for treasure hunting."

Author's sources:
  1. Bennett (1893) . The treasure-seeking culture in early 19th century New England is described in Quinn (1998) , pp. 25–26.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Was Joseph Smith's participation in "money digging" as a youth a blot on his character?

Money digging was a popular, common and accepted practice in their frontier culture

Joseph Smith and some members of his family participated in "money digging" or looking for buried treasure as a youth. This was a common and accepted practice in their frontier culture, though the Smiths do not seem to have been involved to the extent claimed by some of the exaggerated attacks upon them by former neighbors.

In the young Joseph Smith's time and place, "money digging" was a popular, and sometimes respected activity. When Joseph was 16, the Palmyra Herald printed such remarks.

The local newspapers reported on "money digging" activities

  • "digging for money hid in the earth is a very common thing and in this state it is even considered as honorable and profitable employment"
  • "One gentleman...digging...ten to twelve years, found a sufficient quantity of money to build him a commodious house.
  • "another...dug up...fifty thousand dollars!" [1]

And, in 1825 the Wayne Sentinel in Palmyra reported that buried treasure had been found "by the help of a mineral stone, (which becomes transparent when placed in a hat and the light excluded by the face of him who looks into it)." [2]

The Smith's attitude toward treasure digging was similar to a modern attitudes toward gambling, or buying a lottery ticket

Given the financial difficulties under which the Smith family labored, it would hardly be surprising that they might hope for such a reversal in their fortunes. Richard Bushman has compared the Smith's attitude toward treasure digging with a modern attitudes toward gambling, or buying a lottery ticket. Bushman points out that looking for treasure had little stigma attached to it among all classes in the 17th century, and continued to be respectable among the lower classes into the 18th and 19th.[3]

Despite the claims of critics, it is not clear that Joseph and his family saw their activities as "magical."

Three Concerns to Address about Joseph's digging

There are generally only a few questions that need to be addressed regarding Joseph's money-digging: his motives, his success, and the extent of his involvement. The first question is a question of what Joseph was doing while treasure seeking. Was he simply seeking to con people out of money in an easy way? The second question seems to be one of his abilities. How could he produce the Book of Mormon with something that didn't provide him any miraculous experience?

Success

With regards to his success, it is, at the very least, plausible that he could see things in the stone that were invisible to the naked eye—just not treasure. There is, in fact, no recorded instance indicating that Joseph could see and locate treasure in the stones. There is, however, evidence that he could use the stone for more righteous purposes. A few pieces of historical testimony indicate this.

  • Josiah Stowell. In the spring of 1825 Josiah Stowell visited with Joseph Smith, according to Joseph's mother Lucy, “on account of having heard that he possessed certain keys, by which he could discern things invisible to the natural eye.”[4] There was a Spanish gold mine that Josiah believed Joseph might be able to help locate. When Joseph was brought to court in Bainbridge, Chenango County, New York on trial for charges of being a "disorderly person", Josiah testified in Joseph's defense that he could see things in the stone. There are two records of Josiah's testimony: that of a WD Purple and a Miss Pearsall. The Purple account is quoted first and the Pearsall, second:
The next witness called was Deacon Isaiah Stowell. He confirmed all that is said above in relation to himself, and delineated many other circumstances not necessary to record. He swore that the prisoner possessed all the power he claimed, and declared he could see things fifty feet below the surface of the earth, as plain as the witness could see what was on the Justices’ table, and described very many circumstances to confirm his words. Justice Neeley soberly looked at the witness, and in a solemn, dignified voice said: “Deacon Stowell, do I understand you as swearing before God, under the solemn oath you have taken, that you believe the prisoner can see by the aid of the stone fifty feet below the surface of the earth; as plainly as you can see what is on my table?” “Do I believe it?” says Deacon Stowell; “do I believe it? No, it is not a matter of belief: I positively know it to be true.”
Josiah Stowel [sic] sworn. Says that prisoner had been at his house something like five months. Had been employed by him to work on farm part of time; that he pretended to have skill of telling where hidden treasures in the earth were, by means of looking through a certain stone; that prisoner had looked for him sometimes, – once to tell him about money buried on Bend Mountain in Pennsylvania, once for gold on Monument Hill, and once for a salt-spring, – and that he positively knew that the prisoner could tell, and professed the art of seeing those valuable treasures through the medium of said stone: that he found the digging part at Bend and Monument Hill as prisoner represented it; that prisoner had looked through said stone for Deacon Attelon, for a mine – did not exactly find it, but got a piece of ore, which resembled gold, he thinks; that prisoner had told by means of this stone where a Mr. Bacon had buried money; that he and prisoner had been in search of it; that prisoner said that it was in a certain root of a stump five feet from surface of the earth, and with it would be found a tail-feather; that said Stowel and prisoner thereupon commenced digging, found a tail-feather, but money was gone; that he supposed that money moved down; that prisoner did not offer his services; that he never deceived him; that prisoner looked through stone, and described Josiah Stowel’s house and out-houses while at Palmyra, at Simpson Stowel’s, correctly; that he had told about a painted tree with a man’s hand painted upon it, by means of said stone; that he had been in company with prisoner digging for gold, and had the most implicit faith in prisoner’s skill.

There are a few other historical evidences that can be read to demonstrate Joseph's ability to see things in the stone.

  • Martin Harris reminisced in an interview in 1859:
“I…was picking my teeth with a pin while sitting on the bars. The pin caught in my teeth and dropped from my fingers into shavings and straw… We could not find it. I then took Joseph on surprise, and said to him–I said, ‘Take your stone.’ … He took it and placed it in his hat–the old white hat–and place his face in his hat. I watched him closely to see that he did not look to one side; he reached out his hand beyond me on the right, and moved a little stick and there I saw the pin, which he picked up and gave to me. I know he did not look out of the hat until after he had picked up the pin.[5]

In the same interview, Martin testified to Joseph's finding of the plates by the power of the seer stone:

In this stone he could see many things to my certain knowledge. It was by means of this stone he first discovered these plates.
  • Henry Harris
“He [Joseph Smith] said he had a revelation from God that told him they [the Book of Mormon plates] were hid in a certain hill and he looked in his stone and saw them in the place of deposit.[6]
  • On 7 August 1875, The Chicago Times reprinted an interview of David Whitmer conducted by Jacob T. Child, editor of the Richmond Conservator. Whitmer told Child that while witnessing the translation of the Book of Mormon, that he (Whitmer) would put the seer stone Joseph used to translate the Book of Mormon to his own eye and see nothing.
I have seen Joseph, however, place it to his eyes and instantly read signs 160 miles distant and tell exactly what was transpiring there. When I went to Harmony after him he told me the names of every hotel at which I had stopped on the road, read the signs, and described various scenes without having ever received any information from me.[7]
  • Willard Chase and Sally Chase. As Richard Bushman has noted:
Willard Chase, one of the Smith's neighbors and a friend of Joseph's, found one of the stones. Chase let Joseph take the stone home, but as soon as it became known "what wonders he could discover by looking in it," Chase wanted it back. As late as 1830, Chase was still trying to get his hands on the stone. His younger brother Abel later told an interviewer that their sister Sally had a stone too. A nearby physician, John Stafford, reported that "the neighbors used to claim Sally Chase could look at a stone she had, and see money. Willard Chase used to dig when she found where the money was." After Joseph obtained the plates, Willard Chase led the group that searched the Smith's house, guided by Sally Chase and a "green glass, through which she could see many very wonderful things.[8]

Why would Willard and Sally chase after Joseph and his stone if he was utterly ineffective at seeing things in it?

What may be said about Joseph's abilities to see is that he could see things that allowed him to do good. He could not see that which he was not meant to see.

W.I. Appleby:

If Mr. Smith dug for money he considered it was a more honorable way of getting it than taking it from the widow and orphan; but few lazy, hireling priests of this age, would dig either for money or potatoes.[9]

Joseph's tongue-in-cheek response to one of a list of questions that were asked of him during a visit at Elder Cahoon's home:

Was not Joseph Smith a money digger? Yes, but it was never a very profitable job for him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it.[10]

Motives and Extent of Involvement

It is currently[11] in debate what Joseph's motives were and how much he was involved.

Richard Bushman has written:

At present, a question remains about how involved Joseph Smith was in folk magic. Was he enthusiastically pursuing treasure seeking as a business in the 1820s, or was he a somewhat reluctant participant, egged on by his father?[12] Was his woldview fundamentally shaped by folk traditions? I think there is substantial evidence of his reluctance, and, in my opinion, the evidence for extensive involvement is tenuous. But this is a matter of degree. No one denies that magic was there, especially in the mid 1820s. Smith never repudiated folk traditions; he continued to use the seer stone until late in life and used it in the translation process.[13] It certainly had an influence on his outlook, but it was peripheral--not central. Biblical Christianity was the overwhelming influence in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. Folk magic was in the mix but was not the basic ingredient.[14][15]

What we do know is that after the Angel Moroni's appearance in 1823, Joseph began to turn away from treasure seeking. Again from Richard Bushman:

Joseph Jr. never repudiated the seer stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end. But after 1823, he began to orient himself away from treasure and toward translation. Martin Harris, another early supporter, remembered Joseph saying that "the angel told him he must quite the company of the money-diggers. That there were wicked men among them. He must have no more to do with them. He must not lie, nor swear, nor seal." After 1823, he continued to be involved in treasure expeditions but not as the instigator or leader; perhaps he resisted by dragging his feet. William Stafford depicts Joseph Sr. hunting for gold and going back to the house to seek further instructions from Joseph Jr., as if the son was trying to stay out of the picture while the father pushed on. In 1825, when the family needed money, Joseph Jr. agreed to help Stowell find the Spanish gold, but with misgivings. Lucy said of Stowell's operation that "Joseph endeavored to divert him from his vain pursuit." Alva hale, a son in the household where the Smiths stayed in Harmony while digging for Stowell, said Joseph Jr. told him that the "gift in seeing with a stone" was "a gift from God" but that " 'peeping' was all d—d nonsense"; he had been deceived in his treasure-seeking, but he did not intend to deceive anyone else. By this time, Joseph apparently felt that "seeing" with a sone was the work of a "seer," a religious term, while "peeping" or "glass-looking" was fraudulent.[16]

So, in summary, we may say that:

  • Joseph found a seer stone in 1822 and may have used it to look for treasure.
  • Many people believed that he could see things in the stone. There are testimonials that suggest that he could see things in the stone yet no record that he could find any treasure.
  • His motives, cosmological influences, and extent of involvement for early treasure seeking (1822–25) are still in debate. His motives for his later treasure seeking (1825–26) are to help with finances of his family.
  • Beginning in 1823, after the claimed appearance of the angel Moroni, Joseph oriented himself away from treasure seeking.
  • His scriptural and revelatory productions were largely based in Biblical Christianity. Folk magic was a peripheral ingredient to his work (and there is even explicit condemnation of magic in those scriptural productions [Alma 1:32; 3 Nephi 21:16; Mormon 1:19; 2:10; Doctrine and Covenants 63:17; Doctrine and Covenants 76:103)


Response to claim: "Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed'seer stones' in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was periodically hired, for about $14 per month, as a scryer, using what were termed "seer stones" in attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure.

Author's sources:
  1. Smith (1838b) , pp. 42–43 (stating that he was what he called a "money digger", but saying that it "was never a very profitable job to him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it").

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


What contemporary witnesses are there to the work ethic of the Smiths?


Jump to details:


Response to claim: "Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith's contemporaries described his method for seeking treasure as putting the stone in a white stovepipe hat, putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.

Author's sources:
  1. Harris (1833) , pp. 253–54; Hale (1834) , p. 265; Clark (1842) , p. 225; Turner (1851) , p. 216; Harris (1859) , p. 164; Tucker (1867) , pp. 20–21; Lapham (1870) , p. 305; Lewis (Lewis) , p. 1; Mather (1880) , p. 199; Bushman (2005) , pp. 50–51, 54–55.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


Question: Did Joseph Smith place his seer stone in his hat while looking for lost objects?

Martin Harris recounted that Joseph could find lost objects with one of his seer stones

Martin Harris recounted that Joseph could find lost objects with the second, white stone:

I was at the house of his father in Manchester, two miles south of Palmyra village, and was picking my teeth with a pin while sitting on the bars. The pin caught in my teeth and dropped from my fingers into shavings and straw. I jumped from the bars and looked for it. Joseph and Northrop Sweet also did the same. We could not find it. I then took Joseph on surprise, and said to him--I said, "Take your stone." I had never seen it, and did not know that he had it with him. He had it in his pocket. He took it and placed it in his hat--the old white hat--and placed his face in his hat. I watched him closely to see that he did not look to one side; he reached out his hand beyond me on the right, and moved a little stick and there I saw the pin, which he picked up and gave to me. I know he did not look out of the hat until after he had picked up the pin.[17]

Joseph's mother also indicated that Joseph was sought out by some, including Josiah Stoal, to use the stone to find hidden valuables. He

came for Joseph on account of having heard that he possessed certain keys by which he could discern things invisible to the natural eye.[18]

Joseph referred to this incident in JS-H 1:55-56.

Stoal eventually joined the Church; some of his family, however, charged Joseph in court for events related to this treasure seeking. Stoal testified in Joseph's defense.

Joseph Knight also said that, at the command of the angel Moroni, Joseph looked into his seer stone to learn who he should marry. He "looked in his glass and found it was Emma Hale."[19]

For a detailed response, see: Joseph's 1826 glasslooking trial


Response to claim: "Smith did not consider himself to be a 'peeper' or 'glass-looker,' a practice he called 'nonsense'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Smith did not consider himself to be a "peeper" or "glass-looker," a practice he called "nonsense."

Author's sources:
  1. Bushman (2005) , pp. 50–51,,

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Note that Bushman is quoting a secondary source for Joseph's words (Alva Hale), and is demonstrating that Joseph no longer considered himself to be a "peeper" at all. From Bushman, p. 51:

Alva Hale, a son in the household where the Smiths stayed in Harmony while digging for Stowell, said Joseph Jr. told him that the "give in seeing with a stone" was "a gift from God" but that "' peeping ' was all d–d nonsense"; he had been deceived in his treasure seeking, but he did not intend to deceive anyone else....By this time, Joseph apparently felt that "seeing" with a stone was the work of a "seer," a religious term, while "peeping" or "glass-looking" was fraudulent.

Response to claim: "Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Rather, Smith and his family viewed their folk magical practices as spiritual gifts.

Author's sources:
  1. Bushman (2005) , pp. 50–51. Lucy Mack Smith later remembered that the family did not abandon its labor "to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business. We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation but whilst we worked with our hands we endeavored to remember the service of & the welfare of our souls."

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Bushman, quoting Lucy Mack Smith (p. 51):

Lucy...showed her knowledge of formulas and rituals and associated them with "the welfare of our souls." Magic and religion melded in Smith family culture."


Response to claim: "nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Although Smith later rejected his youthful treasure-hunting activities as frivolous and immaterial, he never repudiated the stones themselves nor denied their presumed power to find treasure; nor did he ever relinquish the magic culture in which he was raised.

Author's sources:
  1. Bushman (2005) , pp. 50–51 Smith "never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to the end."; Jan Shipps, Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition, University of Illinois Press, 11.

FAIR's Response

  •  Violates Wikipedia: Citing sources off-site— There is either no citation to support the statement or the citation given is incorrect.
    Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The wiki editor has taken "remnants of the magical culture" from the footnote and solidified them into the culture never having been "relinquished" in the main text.
  • From Bushman, p. 51:

Joseph Jr. never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure. Remnants of the magical culture stayed with him to then end. But after 1823, he began to orient himself away from treasure and toward translation.


Response to claim: "He came to view seeing with a stone in religious terms as the work of a 'seer'"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

He came to view seeing with a stone in religious terms as the work of a "seer",

Author's sources:
  1. Bushman (2005) , p. 51.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Response to claim: "and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a prophet"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

and indeed, in his view a seer was even greater than a prophet.

Author's sources:
  1. Book of Mormon, Mosiah 8:15-17.

FAIR's Response

  •  Violates Wikipedia: No Original Research off-site— Do not use unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position.
    Violated by COgden —Diff: off-site

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The wiki editor is synthesizing a conclusion based upon a primary source (The Book of Mormon) regarding Joseph Smith's belief with respect to the relative importance of seers versus prophets.

15 And the king said that a seer is greater than a prophet.
16 And Ammon said that a seer is a revelator and a prophet also; and a gift which is greater can no man have, except he should possess the power of God, which no man can; yet a man may have great power given him from God.
17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known.


Response to claim: "Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

Joseph Smith's first stone, apparently the same one he used at least part of the time to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,

Author's sources:
  1. Roberts (1930) , p. 129. Roberts was at the time the official historian of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and his opinion has considerable weight, given that the LDS Church attempted to downplay any influence of magic in early Latter Day Saint history.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Note the reference to the stone in the official Church children's magazine, the Friend:

"To help him with the translation, Joseph found with the gold plates “a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in a rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.” Joseph also used an egg-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone."
—“A Peaceful Heart,” Friend, Sep 1974, 7 off-site (emphasis added)

Response to claim: "found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.

Author's sources:
  1. Harris (1859) , p. 163; Lapham (1870) , pp. 305–306. The stone was found in either 1819 (Tucker (1867) , pp. 19–20 Bennett (1893) ) or 1822 Chase (1833) , p. 240.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

For a detailed response, see: The Hurlbut affidavits—Willard Chase

Response to claim: "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated"

The author(s) of Wikipedia article "Golden plates" make(s) the following claim:

This stone may still be in the possession of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Author's sources:
  1. Joseph Fielding Smith (a former president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints): "The statement has been made that the Urim and Thummim was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated. The Urim and Thummim so spoken of, however, was the seer stone which was in the possession of the Prophet Joseph Smith in early days. This seer stone is currently in the possession of the Church." Doctrines of Salvation 3: 225.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event


References

Wikipedia references for "Golden Plates"

Further reading

FAIR Answers—back to home page

Mormonism and Wikipedia



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FairMormon's approach to Wikipedia articles

FairMormon regularly receives queries about specific LDS-themed Wikipedia articles with requests that we somehow "fix" them. Although some individual members of FAIR may choose to edit Wikipedia articles, FairMormon as an organization does not. Controversial Wikipedia articles require constant maintenance and a significant amount of time. We prefer instead to respond to claims in the FAIR Wiki rather than fight the ongoing battle that LDS Wikipedia articles sometimes invite. From FAIR’s perspective, assertions made in LDS-themed Wikipedia articles are therefore treated just like any other critical (or, if one prefers, "anti-Mormon") work. As those articles are revised and updated, we will periodically update our reviews to match.

Who can edit Wikipedia articles?

Editors who wish to participate in editing LDS-themed Wikipedia articles can access the project page here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. You are not required to be LDS in order to participate—there are a number of good non-LDS editors who have made valuable contributions to these articles.

Recommendations when editing Wikipedia articles

FAIR does not advocate removing any references from Wikipedia articles. The best approach to editing Wikipedia is to locate solid references to back up your position and add them rather than attempting to remove information. Individuals who intend to edit should be aware that posting information related to the real-world identities of Wikipedia editors will result in their being banned from editing Wikipedia. Attacking editors and attempting to "out" them on Wikipedia is considered very bad form. The best approach is to treat all Wikipedia editors, whether or not you agree or disagree with their approach, with respect and civility. An argumentative approach is not constructive to achieving a positive result, and will simply result in what is called an "edit war." Unfortunately, not all Wikipedia editors exhibit good faith toward other editors (see, for example, the comment above from "Duke53" or comments within these reviews made by John Foxe's sockpuppet "Hi540," both of whom repeatedly mocked LDS beliefs and LDS editors prior to their being banned.)

Do LDS editors control Wikipedia?

Although there exist editors on Wikipedia who openly declare their affiliation with the Church, they do not control Wikipedia. Ironically, some critics of the Church periodically falsely accuse Wikipedia editors of being LDS simply because they do not accept the critics' desired spin on a particular article.

Do "anti-Mormons" control Wikipedia?

Again, the answer is no. The truth is that Wikipedia is generally self-policing. Highly contentious articles do tend to draw the most passionate supporters and critics.

Why do certain LDS articles seem to be so negative?

Although some LDS-related Wikipedia articles may appear to have a negative tone, they are in reality quite a bit more balanced than certain critical works such as One Nation Under Gods. Although many critical editors often accuse LDS-related Wikipedia articles of being "faith promoting" or claim that they are just an extension of the Sunday School manual, this is rarely the case. Few, if any, Latter-day Saints would find Wikipedia articles to be "faith promoting." Generally, the believers think that the articles are too negative and the critics believe that the articles are too positive. LDS Wikipedia articles should be informative without being overtly faith promoting. However, most of the primary sources, including the words of Joseph Smith himself, are "faith promoting." This presents a dilemma for Wikipedia editors who want to remain neutral. The unfortunate consequence is that Joseph's words are rewritten and intermixed with contradictory sources, resulting in boring and confusing prose.

FairMormon's analysis of LDS-related Wikipedia articles

We examine selected Wikipedia articles and examine them on a "claim-by-claim" basis, with links to responses in the FairMormon Answers Wiki. Wikipedia articles are constantly evolving. As a result, the analysis of each article will be updated periodically in order to bring it more into line with the current version of the article. The latest revision date may be viewed at the top of each individual section. The process by which Wikipedia articles are reviewed is the following:

  1. Update each Wikipedia passage and its associated footnotes.
  2. Examine the use of sources and determine whether or not the passage accurately represents the source used.
  3. Provide links to response articles within the FairMormon Answers Wiki.
  4. If violation of Wikipedia rules is discovered, identify which Wikipedia editor (by pseudonym) made the edit, provide a description of the rule violated and a link to the Wikipedia "diff" showing the actual edit.
  5. If a violated rule is later corrected in a subsequent revision, the violation is removed and a notation is added that the passage is correct per cited sources. This doesn't mean that FAIR necessarily agrees with the passage—only that it is correct based upon the source used.

Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That “Anyone Can Edit”"

Roger Nicholson,  Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, (2012)
The ability to quickly and easily access literature critical of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been made significantly easier through the advent of the Internet. One of the primary sites that dominates search engine results is Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia that “anyone can edit.” Wikipedia contains a large number of articles related to Mormonism that are edited by believers, critics, and neutral parties. The reliability of information regarding the Church and its history is subject to the biases of the editors who choose to modify those articles. Even if a wiki article is thoroughly sourced, editors sometimes employ source material in a manner that supports their bias. This essay explores the dynamics behind the creation of Wikipedia articles about the Church, the role that believers and critics play in that process, and the reliability of the information produced in the resulting wiki articles.

Click here to view the complete article

Wikipedia and anti-Mormon literature
Key sources
  • Roger Nicholson, "Mormonism and Wikipedia: The Church History That 'Anyone Can Edit'," Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture 1/8 (14 September 2012). [151–190] link
Wiki links
Online
Navigators

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  1. ↑ Palmyra Herald (24 July 1822); cited in Russell Anderson, "The 1826 Trial of Joseph Smith," (2002 FAIR Conference presentation.) FAIR link
  2. ↑ "Wonderful Discovery," Wayne Sentinel [Palmyra, New York] (27 December 1825), page 2, col. 4. Reprinted from the Orleans Advocate of Orleans, New York; cited by Mark Ashurst-McGee, "A Pathway to Prophethood: Joseph Smith Junior as Rodsman, Village Seer, and Judeo-Christian Prophet," (Master's Thesis, University of Utah, Logan, Utah, 2000), 170–171.
  3. ↑ Richard L. Bushman, "Joseph Smith Miscellany," (Mesa, Arizona: FAIR, 2005 FAIR Conference) FAIR link
  4. ↑ Lucy Mack Smith, Biographical Sketches of the Prophet Joseph Smith and his Progenitors for Many Generations (Lamoni, Iowa, 1912; republished by Herald Publishing House, 1969), 103.
  5. ↑ Tiffany’s Monthly, June 1859, 163.
  6. ↑ Kirkham, A New Witness For Christ in America, 133.
  7. ↑ David Whitmer Interview with Chicago Times, August 1875. In Dan Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 5 vols. (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1996-2003), 5:21–22.
  8. ↑ Willard Chase, Affidavit (1833), and Peter Ingersoll, Affidavit (1833), in MoU 238-9; Tucker, Origin, 19; Abel Chase Interview (1881), and John Stafford, Interview (1881), in EMD, 2:85, 106, 121; Caroline Rockwell Smith, Statement (1885), in EMD, 2:199; BioS, 102, 109. For another Palmyra seer stone, see Wayne Sentinel, Dec. 27, 1825
  9. ↑ W.I. Appleby, Mormonism Consistent! Truth Vindicated, and Falsehood Exposed and Refuted: Being A Reply to A. H. Wickersham (Wilmington DE: Porter & Nafe, 1843), 1–24.
  10. ↑ Joseph Smith, Elders' Journal of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints [Kirtland, Ohio] 2 no. 3 (July 1838), 43. Also reproduced in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 120; History of the Church 3:29; Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 271.
  11. ↑ Line written 17 June 2019
  12. ↑ Dan Vogel, "The Locations of Joseph Smith's Early Treasure Quests," Dialogue 27, no. 2 (Spring 1990): 91-108
  13. ↑ Susan Staker, "Secret Things, Hidden Things: The Seer Story in the Imaginative Economy of Joseph Smith," in American Apocrypha: Essays on the Book of Mormon, ed. Dan Vogel and Brent Lee Metcalfe (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2002), 235-74
  14. ↑ Mark Ashurst-McGee, "Moroni: Angel or Treasure Guardian?, Mormon Historical Studies 2, no. 2 (Fall 2001): 39-75
  15. ↑ Richard L. Bushman, "Joseph Smith and Money Digging" in A Reason for Faith: Navigating LDS Doctrine and Church History ed. Laura Harris Hales (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 2016) 4
  16. ↑ Richard L. Bushman "Joseph Smith Rough Stone Rolling" (New York City, NY: Alfred Knopf Publishing, 2005) 51
  17. ↑ Joel Tiffany, Tiffany's Monthly (June 1859): 164;cited in Van Wagoner and Walker, 55.
  18. ↑ Lucy Mack Smith, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and His Progenitors for Many Generations (Liverpool, S.W. Richards, 1853),91–92.
  19. ↑ Dean C. Jessee, "Joseph Knight's Recollection of Early Mormon History," Brigham Young University Studies 17 no. 1 (August 1976).; cited in Mark Ashurst-McGee, "A Pathway to Prophethood: Joseph Smith Junior as Rodsman, Village Seer, and Judeo-Christian Prophet," (Master's Thesis, University of Utah, Logan, Utah, 2000), 281. Buy online
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