View source for Question: What does the Book of Mormon mean when it says that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the bible?

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==Question: What does the Book of Mormon mean when it says that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the bible?==
===So called "lost scripture" is in reference to writings mentioned or cited within the present Biblical record, but which are not in the Bible itself===

I've heard about "lost scripture" mentioned in the Bible.  What is this about, and what implications does it have for the doctrine of Biblical [[Mormonism and the Bible/Inerrancy|inerrancy]] and [[Mormonism and the Bible/Completeness|sufficiency]]?

1.  Biblical writers considered writings not in the present canon to be scriptural writings.<br>
2.  Christian groups do not agree on what constitutes the Biblical canon&mdash;any claim that the canon is closed, complete, and sufficient must answer:
: a) ''which'' canon?
: b) what establishes this canon as authoritative and not some other?
3.  Differences in canon between Christian groups ''and'' Biblical authors' clear belief in the scriptural status of other non-Biblical texts argue against a coherent doctrine of Biblical sufficiency and inerrancy drawn from the Bible itself.  Such a claim must come from outside the Bible.

Stephen E. Robinson said the following of this subject:

<blockquote>
"The Book of Mormon teaches that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the Bible (1 Nephi 13:24-29). Both Latter-day Saints and Evangelicals often assume this means that the present biblical books went through a cut-and-paste process to remove these things...However, I see no reason to understand things this way, and in fact I it is largely erroneous. The pertinent passages from the Book of Mormon give no reason to assume that the process of removing plain and precious things from Scripture was one exclusively or even primarily of editing the books of the present canon. The bulk of the text-critical evidence is against a process of wholesale cutting and pasting...

It is clear to me, therefore, that "the plain and precious truths" were not necessarily in the originals of the ''present'' biblical books, and I suspect that the editing process that excised them did not consist solely or even primarily of cutting and pasting the present books, but rather largely in keeping ''other'' apostolic or prophetic writings from being included in the canon. In other words, "the plain and precious truths" were primarily excised not by means of controlling the ''text'', but by means of controlling the ''canon''."<ref> {{HowWide1|start=63}}</ref>
</blockquote>

So called "lost scripture" is in reference to writings mentioned or cited within the present Biblical record, but which are not in the Bible itself.  Some of these writings are known from other sources, and some are not.

===Examples of "lost scripture"===

{| valign="top" border="1"
!Lost writing!!Biblical citation to the lost writing
|-
| style="width:50%" valign="top"| Book of the Wars of the Lord ||{{b||Numbers|21|14}}
|-
|Book of Jasher||{{b||Joshua|10|13}}, {{b|2|Samuel|1|18}}
|-
|Book of the Acts of Solomon||{{b|1|Kings|11|41}}
|-
|Book of Samuel the Seer||{{b|1|Chronicles|29|29}}
|-
|Book of Gad the Seer||{{b|1|Chronicles|29|29}}
|-
|Book of Nathan the Prophet||{{b|1|Chronicles|29|29}}, {{b|2|Chronicles|9|29}}
|-
|Prophecy of Ahijah||{{b|2|Chronicles|9|29}}
|-
|Visions of Iddo the Seer||{{b|2|Chronicles|9|29}}, {{b|2|Chronicles|12|15}}, {{b|2|Chronicles|13|22}}
|-
|Book of Shemaiah||{{b|2|Chronicles|12|15}}
|-
|Book of Jehu||{{b|2|Chronicles|20|34}}
|-
|Sayings of the Seers||{{b|2|Chronicles|33|19}}
|-
|Lament for Josiah||{{b|2|Chronicles|35|25}}
|-
|Paul's epistle to Corinthians before our "1 Corinthians"||{{b|1|Corinthians|5|9}}
|-
|Paul's possible earlier Ephesians epistle||{{b||Ephesians|3|3}}
|-
|Paul's epistle to Church at Laodicea||{{b||Colossians|4|16}}
|-
|1 Enoch 1:19 and The Assumption of Moses||{{b||Jude|1|14-15}}
|-
|1 Enoch||"It influenced Matthew, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, Hebrews, 1 John, Jude (which quotes it directly) and Revelation (with numerous points of contact)…in molding New Testament doctrines concerning the nature of the Messiah, the Son of Man, the messianic kingdom, demonology, the future, resurrection, the final judgment, the whole eschatological theater, and symbolism."<ref>E. Isaac, "1 (Ethiopic Apocalypse of) Enoch," in ''The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha'', ed. J. H. Charlesworth, 2 vols, (Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1983), 1:10; cited in {{ComparingLDSBeliefs}}</ref>
|}

===Examples of canonical differences among Bibles===

The picture is further complicated by the fact that Christians have not always agreed on the "canon"&mdash;that is, they have not always agreed upon which writings were "scripture" and which were not.

Some examples of these variations:

{| valign="top" border="1"
!Christian Person or Group!!Difference in canon from Protestant Bible (e.g., the KJV)
|-
|Catholics||Apocrypha is canonical
|-
|Orthodox||Apocrypha is canonical
|-
|Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 200)|| Included in canon:
* Epistle of Barnabas
* Epistle of Clement
* The Preaching of Peter<ref>{{ComparingLDSBeliefs}}</ref>
|-
|Roman Christians (circa A.D. 200)||Included in canon:
*Revelation of Peter
*Wisdom of Solomon
Excluded from canon:
*Hebrews
*1 Peter
*2 Peter
*3 John<ref>Mike Ash, "[http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Is_the_Bible_Complete.pdf Is the Bible Complete?]" (FAIR Brochure): 1.</ref>
|-
|Origen (''date'')||Included in canon:
* Epistle of Barnabas
* Shepherd of Hermas<ref>{{ComparingLDSBeliefs}}; citing Clyde L. Manschreck, ''A History of Christianity in the World'', 2d. ed. (Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice Hall, 1985), 52.</ref>
Excluded from canon:<br>
*James
*Jude
*2 John
*Those disputed by Rome (see above)<ref>Mike Ash, "[http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Is_the_Bible_Complete.pdf Is the Bible Complete?]" (FAIR Brochure): 1.</ref>
|-
|Syriac Peshitta||Excluded from the canon:
* 2 Peter
* 2 John
* 3 John
* Jude
* Revelation of St. John<ref>{{FR-11-2-4}}; citing  Kurt Aland, ''Nestle-Aland Greek-English New Testament'', 5th ed. (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1990), 769–75; see also Craig A. Evans, ''Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation'' (Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1992), 190–219, who provides almost 1,500 quotations, allusions, and parallels between noncanonical sources and the New Testament.</ref>
|-
|Armenian Church||Included in canon:
* 3 Corinthians
Excluded from canon:<br>
* Revelation of St. John prior to 12th century<ref>{{FR-11-2-4}}</ref>
|-
|Ethiopian Church||Included in canon:
*Sinodos
* Clement
* Book of the Covenant
* Didascalia<ref>{{FR-11-2-4}}</ref>
|-
|Martin Luther||Considered Epistle of James "a right strawy epistle."<ref>Timothy George, "[http://www.sbts.edu/pdf/sbjt_2000Fall3.pdf 'A Right Strawy Epistle': Reformation Perspectives on James]," ''The Southern Baptist Journal of Theology'' (Fall 2000), 20&ndash;31.</ref>  Also didn't agree with Sermon on the Mount because didn't match his "grace only" theology.
|-
|}

===Implications for inerrancy and sufficiency doctrine of the Bible===

All these canons cannot be correct.  Why must we accept that the critic's Bible is complete and inerrant?  By what authority is this declared?  Such an authority would have to be ''outside'' the Bible, thus demonstrating that there is some other source for the Word of God besides the Bible.

Furthermore, one should remember that Biblical writers were not aware of the Bible canon, because the Bible was not compiled until centuries later.  Thus, Biblical writers cannot have referred to completeness and sufficiency of the canon, because the canon did not exist.

The clear evidence of "lost scripture" from the Bible was a common early LDS argument.  See, for example:
* {{MA1|author=J. Goodson|article=[http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/BOMP&CISOPTR=1315&REC=19 Dear Sir]|vol=3|num=1|date=October 1836|start=397–99}}
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{{endnotes sources}
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[[de:Bibel:_Unfehlbarkeit]]
[[en:Question: What does the Book of Mormon mean when it says that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the bible?]]
[[es:Pregunta: ¿Qué significa el Libro de Mormón cuando dice que cosas "claras y preciosas" han sido sacadas de la Biblia?]]
[[fr:La Sainte Bible et le mormonisme/L'infaillibilité et la Bible]]
[[pt:Pergunta: O que significa o Livro de Mórmon quando diz que coisas "claras e preciosas" foram tiradas da Bíblia?]]