FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The witness of John Whitmer
Revision as of 04:19, 11 March 2023 by DavidSmith (talk | contribs) (Created page with "{{Main Page}} {{Navigation Book of Mormon}} <onlyinclude> {{Header}} </onlyinclude> {{:Turley claimed that John Whitmer said: "I now say I handled those plates. there was fi...")
FAIR Answers—back to home page
The witness of John Whitmer
Turley claimed that John Whitmer said: "I now say I handled those plates. there was fine engravings on both sides. I handled them...and they were shown to me by a supernatural power"
The critics' attempt to argue that the witnesses only 'saw' the plates in a spiritual state, and then were allowed to heft a covered box. This flatly contradicts their own reports, and those of others.[1] Theodore Turley claimed that John Whitmer said:
[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: ‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings], and [said] ‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power;’ he acknowledged all.[2]
So, the apostate Whitmer insists that he physically handled the plates, and attests to having seen fine engraving "on both sides." The critics grasp at straws, and ignore the very clear implication that Whitmer (at this time a bitter enemy of Joseph Smith) claims to have actually seen and handled the plates. The "supernatural power" citation seems to be the imposition of the interviewers' bias (it appears in none of Whitmer's first person accounts or in the Testimony of the Eight Witnesses—see further discussion in main article above).
It is also possible that Whitmer was insisting that Joseph Smith could not have showed him the plates without divine aid; this perspective is not present in any of his other statements, however. The Three witnesses likewise insisted on the physical reality of their experience with the angel, despite the supernatural trappings of their witness experience.
Why, then, did John Whitmer apostatize? He rationalized his choice to disbelieve the translation of the Book of Mormon (despite knowing that the plates were literal and physical) thusly:
I cannot read it, and I do not know whether it is true or not.[3]
Myron H. Bond (1878): John Whitmer "knew as well as he knew he had an existence that Joseph translated the ancient writing which was upon the plates, which he saw and handled"
John Whitmer stated that he had handled the plates and that Joseph's translation occurred by a "supernatural or almighty power"
Myron H. Bond:
[O]ld Father Whitmer told me last winter, with tears in his eyes, that he knew as well as he knew he had an existence that Joseph translated the ancient writing which was upon the plates, which he 'saw and handled,' and which, as one of the scribes, he helped to copy, as the words fell from Joseph's lips, by supernatural or almighty power"[4]
P. Wilhelm Poulson (1878): John Whitmer said "He handed them uncovered into our hands, and we turned the leaves sufficient to satisfy us"
John Whitmer's final interview is impressive:
I said: I am aware that your name is affixed to the testimony in the Book of Mormon, that you saw the plates? He–It is so, and that testimony is true. I–Did you handle the plates with your hands?
He–I did so!
I–Then they were a material substance?
He–Yes, as material as anything can be.
I–They were heavy to lift?
He–Yes, and you know gold is a heavy metal, they were very heavy.
I–How big were the leaves?
He–So far as I recollect, 8 by 6 or 7 inches.
I–Were the leaves thick? He–Yes, just so thick, that characters could be engraven on both sides.
I–How were the leaves joined together?
He–In three rings, each one in the shape of a D with the straight line towards the centre. I-In what place did you see the plates.
He-In Joseph Smith's house; he had them there.
I–Did you see them covered with a cloth?
He–No. He handed them uncovered into our hands, and we turned the leaves sufficient to satisfy us.
I-Were you all eight witnesses present at the same time?
He-No. At that time Joseph showed the plates to us, we were four persons, present in the room, and at another time he showed them to four persons more....
when Joseph Smith [III]...sent word to John Whitmer to reaffirm his testimony, his answer was: 'I have never recalled it, and I have nothing to reaffirm.'[5]
John Whitmer reaffirmed his testimony as printed in the Book of Mormon even after he left the Church
John Whitmer published his witness to the plates, and reaffirmed the written testimony of the Eight Witnesses published in the Book of Mormon:
It may not be amiss in this place, to give a statement to the world concerning the work of the Lord, as I have been a member of this church of Latter Day Saints from its beginning; to say that the book of Mormon is a revelation from God, I have no hesitancy; but with all confidence have signed my named to it as such; and I hope, that my patrons will indulge me in speaking freely on this subject, as I am about leaving the editorial department. Therefore I desire to testify to all that will come to the knowledge of this address; that I have most assuredly seen the plates from whence the book of Mormon is translated, and that I have handled these plates, and know of a surety that Joseph Smith, jr. has translated the book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, and in this thing the wisdom of the wise most assuredly has perished: therefore, know ye, O ye inhabitants of the earth, wherever this address may come, that I have in this thing freed my garments of your blood, whether you believe or disbelieve the statements of your unworthy friend and well-wisher.[6]
John Whitmer (1876): "I have never heard that any one of the three or eight witnesses ever denied the testimony that they have borne to the Book as published in the first edition of the Book of Mormon"
In 1876, John Whitmer, one of the Eight Witnesses, wrote a lengthy letter to Mark Forscutt, which included the following:
Oliver Cowdery lived in Richmond, Mo., some 40 miles from here, at the time of his death. I went to see him and was with him for some days previous to his demise. I have never heard him deny the truth of his testimony of the Book of Mormon under any circumstances whatever. . . . Neither do I believe that he would have denied, at the peril of his life; so firm was he that he could not be made to deny what he has affirmed to be a divine revelation from God. . . .
I have never heard that any one of the three or eight witnesses ever denied the testimony that they have borne to the Book as published in the first edition of the Book of Mormon. There are only two of the witnesses to that book now living, to wit., David Whitmer, one of the three, and John Wh[itmer], one of the eight. Our names have gone forth to all nations, tongues and people as a divine revelation from God. And it will bring to pass the designs of God according to the declaration therein contained.[7]
John Whitmer's character
"Mr. [John] Whitmer is considered a truthful, honest and law abiding citizen by this community, and consequently, his appointment [to preach] drew out a large audience. Mr. Whitmer stated that he had often handled the identical golden plates which Mr. Smith received from the angel...."[8]
Question: Did John Whitmer, one of the Eight Witnesses, actually say that he saw the plates by a "supernatural power"?
The "supernatural power" quote is actually reported by Theodore Turley six years after getting the information from Whitmer
Some critics of the Restoration have focused on a single statement reportedly made by John Whitmer in 1839 to make it appear as though the Eight Witnesses of the Book of Mormon did not have a physical encounter with the golden plates (as they so testified on the pages of the book itself), but rather a spiritual or visionary experience only. Detractors advocate this viewpoint in the hope of weakening the idea that the golden plates existed in objective reality and also to make it appear that the Witnesses themselves were delusional or hallucinatory and, therefore, should not be trusted to provide accurate testimony.
The key to properly understanding the nature of the alleged 1839 John Whitmer statement is to see it in its historical context. The quotation in question is not a contemporaneous declaration, but was instead reported by eyewitness Theodore Turley about six years after the information was relayed by Whitmer.[9] Three years prior to giving this verbal account, however, John Whitmer published a firsthand explanation of his experience. It is reproduced here because its content is crucial to analyzing the Turley reminiscence.
ca. 27 March 1836
- “I desire to testify unto all . . . that I have most assuredly seen the plates from whence the Book of Mormon [was] translated, and that I have handled these plates, and know of a surety that Joseph Smith, jr. has translated the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God.”[10]
It is plainly manifest in this primary source that John Whitmer not only saw the Book of Mormon plates without any hint of spiritual overtones but he also physically “handled” them. More importantly, for this discussion anyway, is the phraseology that Whitmer uses next. He indicates that he knew beyond doubt that Joseph Smith translated the plates “by the gift and power of God” – i.e., by a supernatural power.
Theodore Turley states that John Whitmer saw the plates by a "supernatural power"
Now for the Turley statement that is so dearly cherished by detractors of the faith. It reads:
5 April 1839
- “[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: ‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings], and [said] ‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power;’ he acknowledged all.”[11]
Whitmer clearly states that he "saw and handled" the plates
At first glance it may appear that this statement scores significant points for the opposing team. But any ground that seems to be gained is effectively nullified by comparing this John Whitmer statement with another one made by him which was recorded by Myron Bond only about seven months after the information was verbalized. It reads:
21 December 1877–21 March 1878
- “John Whitmer told me last winter . . . [that he] ‘saw and handled’ [the plates and] . . . helped to copy [the Book of Mormon manuscript] as the words fell from Joseph’s lips by supernatural or [A]lmighty power.”[12]
Again, John Whitmer testified that he “saw and handled” the golden plates without any spiritual or visionary overtones. He also used language with regard to the translation process that unmistakably matches what Theodore Turley reported in his late recollection. The connection in phraseology must not be overlooked - both quotations speak of a supernatural power. But the more recent reminiscence of Myron Bond matches the firsthand published information provided by John Whitmer in 1836. Both of these sources identify the supernatural power as the power of God which was manifest through the translation process. (And, since John was one of the scribes for Joseph Smith's translation of the Book of Mormon, it is not surprising that he would choose to repeatedly emphasize that the translation was done with divine aid. This aspect of his witness is conceptually distinct from his witness of the plates' reality.)
John Whitmer reaffirmed his published testimony of the Book of Mormon
John Whitmer, one of the Eight witnesses, likewise reaffirmed the published witness:
I conclude you have read the Book of Mormon, together with the testimonies <underline>that</underline> are thereto attached; in which testimonies you read my name subscribed as one of the Eight witnesses to said Book. That <underline>testimony was</underline>, is, and <underline>will</underline> be <underline>true</underline> henceforth and forever."[13]
John Whitmer's final interview:
I said: I am aware that your name is affixed to the testimony in the Book of Mormon, that you saw the plates?
He–It is so, and that testimony is true.
I–Did you handle the plates with your hands?
He–I did so!
I–Then they were a material substance?
He–Yes, as material as anything can be.
I–They were heavy to lift?
He–Yes, and you know gold is a heavy metal, they were very heavy.
I–How big were the leaves?
He–So far as I recollect, 8 by 6 or 7 inches.
I–Were the leaves thick?
He–Yes, just so thick, that characters could be engraven on both sides.
I–How were the leaves joined together?
He–In three rings, each one in the shape of a D with the straight line towards the centre. I-In what place did you see the plates.
He-In Joseph Smith's house; he had them there.
I–Did you see them covered with a cloth?
He–No. He handed them uncovered into our hands, and we turned the leaves sufficient to satisfy us.
I-Were you all eight witnesses present at the same time?
He-No. At that time Joseph showed the plates to us, we were four persons, present in the room, and at another time he showed them to four persons more....
when Joseph Smith [III]...sent word to John Whitmer to reaffirm his testimony, his answer was: 'I have never recalled it, and I have nothing to reaffirm.'[14]
John Whitmer statements as one of the Eight Witnesses
"I have never heard that any one of the three, or eight witnesses ever denied the testimony that they have borne to the Book as published in the first edition of the Book of Mormon."[15]
I conclude you have read the Book of Mormon, together with the testimonies <underline>that</underline> are thereto attached; in which testimonies you read my name subscribed as one of the Eight witnesses to said Book. That <underline>testimony was</underline>, is, and <underline>will</underline> be <underline>true</underline> henceforth and forever."[16]
"Mr. [John] Whitmer is considered a truthful, honest and law abiding citizen by this community, and consequently, his appointment [to preach] drew out a large audience. Mr. Whitmer stated that he had often handled the identical golden plates which Mr. Smith received from the angel...."[17]
Said Oliver Cowdery of a testimony by John Whitmer: "A thousand things may be conjectured, but when a man declares openly, candidly, and seriously, of what he has seen, hefted and handled with his own hands, and taht in the presence of a God who sees and knows the secrets of the heart, no man possessed of common reason and common sense, can doubt, or will be so vain as to dispute."[18]
[Theodore] Turley said, ‘Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard [John] Corrill say, that Mormonism was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer: you say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false.’ Whitmer asked, ‘Do you hint at me?’ Turley replied, ‘If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith.’ Whitmer replied: ‘I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them;’ and he described how they were hung [on rings], and [said] ‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power;’ he acknowledged all.[19]
In 1876, John Whitmer wrote a lengthy letter to Mark Forscutt, which included the following:
Oliver Cowdery lived in Richmond, Mo., some 40 miles from here, at the time of his death. I went to see him and was with him for some days previous to his demise. I have never heard him deny the truth of his testimony of the Book of Mormon under any circumstances whatever. . . . Neither do I believe that he would have denied, at the peril of his life; so firm was he that he could not be made to deny what he has affirmed to be a divine revelation from God. . . .
I have never heard that any one of the three or eight witnesses ever denied the testimony that they have borne to the Book as published in the first edition of the Book of Mormon. There are only two of the witnesses to that book now living, to wit., David Whitmer, one of the three, and John Wh[itmer], one of the eight. Our names have gone forth to all nations, tongues and people as a divine revelation from God. And it will bring to pass the designs of God according to the declaration therein contained.[20]
[O]ld Father Whitmer told me last winter, with tears in his eyes, that he knew as well as he knew he had an existence that Joseph translated the ancient writing which was upon the plates, which he 'saw and handled,' and which, as one of the scribes, he helped to copy, as the words fell from Joseph's lips, by supernatural or almighty power"[21]
It may not be amiss in this place, to give a statement to the world concerning the work of the Lord, as I have been a member of this church of Latter Day Saints from its beginning; to say that the book of Mormon is a revelation from God, I have no hesitancy; but with all confidence have signed my named to it as such; and I hope, that my patrons will indulge me in speaking freely on this subject, as I am about leaving the editorial department. Therefore I desire to testify to all that will come to the knowledge of this address; that I have most assuredly seen the plates from whence the book of Mormon is translated, and that I have handled these plates, and know of a surety that Joseph Smith, jr. has translated the book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, and in this thing the wisdom of the wise most assuredly has perished: therefore, know ye, O ye inhabitants of the earth, wherever this address may come, that I have in this thing freed my garments of your blood, whether you believe or disbelieve the statements of your unworthy friend and well-wisher.[22]
John Whitmer's final interview, years after he had left the Church
I said: I am aware that your name is affixed to the testimony in the Book of Mormon, that you saw the plates? He–It is so, and that testimony is true. I–Did you handle the plates with your hands?
He–I did so!
I–Then they were a material substance?
He–Yes, as material as anything can be.
I–They were heavy to lift?
He–Yes, and you know gold is a heavy metal, they were very heavy.
I–How big were the leaves?
He–So far as I recollect, 8 by 6 or 7 inches.
I–Were the leaves thick? He–Yes, just so thick, that characters could be engraven on both sides.
I–How were the leaves joined together?
He–In three rings, each one in the shape of a D with the straight line towards the centre. I-In what place did you see the plates.
He-In Joseph Smith's house; he had them there.
I–Did you see them covered with a cloth?
He–No. He handed them uncovered into our hands, and we turned the leaves sufficient to satisfy us.
I-Were you all eight witnesses present at the same time?
He-No. At that time Joseph showed the plates to us, we were four persons, present in the room, and at another time he showed them to four persons more....
when Joseph Smith [III]...sent word to John Whitmer to reaffirm his testimony, his answer was: 'I have never recalled it, and I have nothing to reaffirm.'[23]
- ↑ Many of the quotes collected here are found in Richard Lloyd Anderson, "Attempts to Redefine the Experience of the Eight Witnesses," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 14/1 (2005). [18–] link (Key source)
- ↑ "Theodore Turley's Memorandums," Church Archives, handwriting of Thomas Bullock, who began clerking in late 1843; cited in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:241.; see also with minor editing in Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 3:307–308. Volume 3 link
- ↑ "Theodore Turley's Memorandums," Church Archives, handwriting of Thomas Bullock, who began clerking in late 1843; cited in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:241.; see also with minor editing in Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 3:307–308. Volume 3 link
- ↑ Myron H. Bond to Editors, 2 August 1878 in Saints' Herald 25 (15 August 1878): 253; in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:251.
- ↑ Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:247–249., original in Deseret Evening News, 6 August 1878; citing a letter from P. Wilhelm Poulson to Editors (31 July 1878) from Ovid City, Idaho.
- ↑ John Whitmer, "Address To the patrons of the Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate," (March 1836) Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate 2:286-287. (italics added)
- ↑ Daniel C. Peterson, "Not Joseph's, and Not Modern," in Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon, edited by Donald W. Parry, Daniel C. Peterson, and John W. Welch, (Provo, Utah: FARMS, 2002), Chapter 2, references silently removed—consult original for citations.
- ↑ "I.C. Funn," [John Whitmer Testimony], Kingston (MO) Sentinel, ca. January 1878, reprinted in Saints' Herald 25 (15 February 1878): 57; cited in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:245.
- ↑ “Memorandums,” 1845, handwriting of Thomas Bullock, Church Archives, Salt Lake City, Utah.
- ↑ John Whitmer, "To the patrons of the Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate," (March 1836) Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate 2:287.
- ↑ Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 3:307–308. Volume 3 link
- ↑ Saints’ Herald 25/16 (15 August 1878): 253; letter written by Myron Bond in Cadillac, Michigan on 2 August 1878.
- ↑ John Whitmer to Herman C. Smith, 11 December 1876, Artificial Collection, Community of CHrist Library-Archives; in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:244.
- ↑ Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:247–249., original in Deseret Evening News, 6 August 1878; citing a letter from P. Wilhelm Poulson to Editors (31 July 1878) from Ovid City, Idaho.
- ↑ John Whimter to Mark H. Forest [Forscutt], 5 March 1876, Whitmer Papers, Community of Christ Library-Archives; in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:243.
- ↑ John Whitmer to Herman C. Smith, 11 December 1876, Artificial Collection, Community of CHrist Library-Archives; in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:244.
- ↑ "I.C. Funn," [John Whitmer Testimony], Kingston (MO) Sentinel, ca. January 1878, reprinted in Saints' Herald 25 (15 February 1878): 57; cited in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:245.
- ↑ Oliver Cowdery, "Conference Report," Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate 1 (June 1835), 143. Reproduced in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:250.
- ↑ "Theodore Turley's Memorandums," Church Archives, handwriting of Thomas Bullock, who began clerking in late 1843; cited in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:241.; see also with minor editing in Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 3:307–308. Volume 3 link
- ↑ Daniel C. Peterson, "Not Joseph's, and Not Modern," in Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon, edited by Donald W. Parry, Daniel C. Peterson, and John W. Welch, (Provo, Utah: FARMS, 2002), Chapter 2, references silently removed—consult original for citations.
- ↑ Myron H. Bond to Editors, 2 August 1878 in Saints' Herald 25 (15 August 1878): 253; in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:251.
- ↑ John Whitmer, "Address To the patrons of the Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate," (March 1836) Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate 2:286-287. (italics added)
- ↑ Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 5:247–249., original in Deseret Evening News, 6 August 1878; citing a letter from P. Wilhelm Poulson to Editors (31 July 1878) from Ovid City, Idaho.