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Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/"Questions and Answers" on Mormon Stories/Translation of the Book of Mormon
A FairMormon Analysis of: "Questions and Answers: What aspects of LDS Church teachings/doctrine do you still believe in, vs. not?", a work by author: John Dehlin
|Historicity of the Book of Mormon|
Jump to Subtopic:
- Response to claim: "Joseph Smith used this....stone in the hat....to produce the Book of Mormon"
- Response to claim: "this same stone in the hat....from his folk magic days"
- Response to claim: "this 'translation' process did not involve the golden plates"
- Response to claim: "which begs the question as to why the plates were needed at all?"
Response to claim: "Joseph Smith used this....stone in the hat....to produce the Book of Mormon"
(25 June 2014 revision): Joseph Smith used this....stone in the hat....to produce the Book of Mormon
In fact, both the seer stone and the Nephite interpreters were used, depending upon the phase of translation. One is no stranger than the other.
Question: Did Joseph Smith use the Nephite interpreters to translate? Or did he use his own seer stone?
Joseph Smith used both the Nephite interpreters and the seer stone, and both were called "Urim and Thummim"
Joseph Smith used both the Nephite Interpreters and his own seer stone during the translation process, yet we only hear of the "Urim and Thummim" being used for this purpose.
- He described the instrument as ‘spectacles’ and referred to it using an Old Testament term, Urim and Thummim.
- He also sometimes applied the term to other stones he possessed, called ‘seer stones’ because they aided him in receiving revelations as a seer. The Prophet received some early revelations through the use of these seer stones.
- Records indicate that soon after the founding of the Church in 1830, the Prophet stopped using the seer stones as a regular means of receiving revelations. Instead, he dictated the revelations after inquiring of the Lord without employing an external instrument.
Emma Smith confirmed that Joseph switched between the Nephite interpreters and his own seer stone during the translation
Emma Smith Bidamon described Joseph's use of several stones during translation to Emma Pilgrim on 27 March 1870 (original spelling retained):
Now the first that my <husband> translated, [the book] was translated by use of the Urim, and Thummim, and that was the part that Martin Harris lost, after that he used a small stone, not exactly, black, but was rather a dark color.”
Question: What are the Nephite interpreters?
The Nephite interpreters are two seer stones set in a framework resembling a set of "spectacles"
The Lord provided a set of seer stones (which were formerly used by Nephite prophets) along with the plates. The term Nephite interpreters can alternatively refer to the stones themselves or the stones in conjunction with their associated paraphernalia (holding rim and breastplate). Some time after the translation, early saints noticed similarities with the seer stones and related paraphernalia used by High Priests in the Old Testament and began to use the term Urim and Thummim interchangeably with the Nephite interpreters and Joseph's other seer stones as well. The now popular use of the term Urim and Thummim has unfortunately obscured the fact that all such devices belong in the same class of consecrated revelatory aids and that more than one were used in the translation.
The manner in which the interpreters were used was never explained in detail
The Nephite interpreters were intended to assist Joseph in the initial translation process, yet the manner in which they were employed was never explained in detail. The fact that the Nephite interpreters were set in rims resembling a pair of spectacles has led some to believe that they may have been worn like a pair of glasses, with Joseph viewing the characters on the plates through them. This, however, is merely speculation that doesn't take into account that Joseph soon disassembled the fixture, the spacing between seer stones being too wide for his eyes. The accompanying breastplate also appeared to have been used by a larger man. Like its biblical counterpart (the High Priest's breastplate contained 12 gems that symbolized him acting as a mediator between God and Israel), the Nephite breastplate was apparently non-essential to the revelatory process.
Question: Did Joseph Smith use his own seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon?
Many eyewitness accounts confirm that Joseph employed his seer stone during part of the translation process
Martin Harris states that Joseph used the Nephite interpreters and then later switched to using the seer stone "for convenience."  In fact, Elder Nelson refers to the use of the seer stone in his 1993 talk:
The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights. David Whitmer wrote:
“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.) 
Gospel Topics: "Joseph Smith and his associates often used the term 'Urim and Thummim' to refer to the single stone as well as the interpreters"
"These two instruments—the interpreters and the seer stone—were apparently interchangeable"
Gospel Topics on LDS.org:
These two instruments—the interpreters and the seer stone—were apparently interchangeable and worked in much the same way such that, in the course of time, Joseph Smith and his associates often used the term “Urim and Thummim” to refer to the single stone as well as the interpreters. In ancient times, Israelite priests used the Urim and Thummim to assist in receiving divine communications. Although commentators differ on the nature of the instrument, several ancient sources state that the instrument involved stones that lit up or were divinely illumin[at]ed. Latter-day Saints later understood the term “Urim and Thummim” to refer exclusively to the interpreters. Joseph Smith and others, however, seem to have understood the term more as a descriptive category of instruments for obtaining divine revelations and less as the name of a specific instrument. 
Ensign (Jan. 2013): "He...referred to it using an Old Testament term, Urim and Thummim...He also sometimes applied the term to other stones he possessed"
Gerrit Dirkmaat (Church History Department - January 2013 Ensign):
Those who believed that Joseph Smith’s revelations contained the voice of the Lord speaking to them also accepted the miraculous ways in which the revelations were received. Some of the Prophet Joseph’s earliest revelations came through the same means by which he translated the Book of Mormon from the gold plates. In the stone box containing the gold plates, Joseph found what Book of Mormon prophets referred to as “interpreters,” or a “stone, which shall shine forth in darkness unto light” (Alma 37:23–24). He described the instrument as “spectacles” and referred to it using an Old Testament term, Urim and Thummim (see Exodus 28:30).2
He also sometimes applied the term to other stones he possessed, called “seer stones” because they aided him in receiving revelations as a seer. The Prophet received some early revelations through the use of these seer stones. For example, shortly after Oliver Cowdery came to serve as a scribe for Joseph Smith as he translated the plates, Oliver and Joseph debated the meaning of a biblical passage and sought an answer through revelation. Joseph explained: “A difference of opinion arising between us about the account of John the Apostle … whether he died, or whether he continued; we mutually agreed to settle it by the Urim and Thummim.”3 In response, Joseph Smith received the revelation now known as section 7 of the Doctrine and Covenants, which informed them that Jesus had told the Apostle John, “Thou shalt tarry until I come in my glory” (D&C 7:3).
Records indicate that soon after the founding of the Church in 1830, the Prophet stopped using the seer stones as a regular means of receiving revelations. Instead, he dictated the revelations after inquiring of the Lord without employing an external instrument. One of his scribes explained that process: “The scribe seats himself at a desk or table, with pen, ink, and paper. The subject of inquiry being understood, the Prophet and Revelator inquires of God. He spiritually sees, hears, and feels, and then speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Ghost.”
W.W. Phelps (1833): "through the aid of a pair of Interpreters, or spectacles—(known, perhaps, in ancient days as Teraphim, or Urim and Thummim)"
W.W. Phelps wrote the following in the January 1833 edition of The Evening and The Morning Star:
The book of Mormon, as a revelation from God, possesses some advantage over the old scripture: it has not been tinctured by the wisdom of man, with here and there an Italic word to supply deficiencies.-It was translated by the gift and power of God, by an unlearned man, through the aid of a pair of Interpreters, or spectacles-(known, perhaps, in ancient days as Teraphim, or Urim and Thummim) and while it unfolds the history of the first inhabitants that settled this continent, it, at the same time, brings a oneness to scripture, like the days of the apostles; and opens and explains the prophecies, that a child may understand the meaning of many of them; and shows how the Lord will gather his saints, even the children of Israel, that have been scattered over the face of the earth, more than two thousand years, in these last days, to the place of the name of the Lord of hosts, the mount Zion. 
It appears that the seer stone was also referred to as the "Urim and Thummim" after 1833, indicating that the name could be assigned to any device that was used for the purpose of translation.
Response to claim: "this same stone in the hat....from his folk magic days"
(25 June 2014 revision): this same stone in the hat....from his folk magic days
How was Joseph to learn to be a prophet from scratch? God allowed Joseph to develop confidence via a method in which he and others already believed he had skill.
Joseph Smith used the same "rock in hat" seer stone for translating that he used for "money digging"
Jump to Subtopic:
- Gospel Topics: "As Joseph grew to understand his prophetic calling, he learned that he could use this stone for the higher purpose of translating scripture"
- Question: Why would Joseph Smith use the same stone for translating the Book of Mormon that he used for "money digging"?
- Question: What role did Joseph fill in the community as a youth?
- Question: Didn't Joseph's 1826 Bainbridge appearance before a judge prove that he had previously been using his stone for nefarious purposes?
- Question: Why would Joseph Smith not continue to use the sacred interpreters provided with the Nephite record?
- Question: Did Joseph use his seer stone to view the location of the gold plates in the Hill Cumorah?
- Question: Did Joseph Smith use his own seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon?
- Question: Did Joseph Smith use the Nephite interpreters to translate? Or did he use his own seer stone?
- Question: Did Joseph Fielding Smith say that it was not reasonable for Joseph Smith to use a seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon?
- Question: Why is the "white stone" that we are to receive upon entry to the Celestial kingdom not discussed extensively in Sunday School?
- Brant A. Gardner, "Joseph the Seer—or Why Did He Translate With a Rock in His Hat?"
Response to claim: "this 'translation' process did not involve the golden plates"
(25 June 2014 revision): this 'translation' process did not involve the golden plates
Joseph and the Church have always said that the translation was conducted by "the gift and power of God." This means that of course Joseph would not use the plates in precisely the same way as an academic translator would use a source document. He did use the plates initially as he struggled to learn to translate.
Response to claim: "which begs the question as to why the plates were needed at all?"
(25 June 2014 revision): which begs the question as to why the plates were needed at all?
The question has a simple answer, even if the author refuses to acknowledge it. If there were no plates, it would be easy—as many cultural Mormons and critics have tried to do anyway—to claim that the Book of Mormon was an "inspired fiction." The existence of real, literal plates seen and handled by witnesses is evidence that the Nephites really existed. The Book of Mormon story is not a mere allegory or fiction—it is real history, about real people, who meet a real, genuine, living Christ.
The plates also probably helped reassure Joseph and those close to him that he was not crazy, or delusional, or lying—he had genuine, tangible artifacts.
Question: Why were the gold plates needed at all if they weren't used directly during the translation process?
Joseph did not need the plates physically present to translate, since the translation was done by revelation
Much is made of the fact that Joseph used a seer stone, which he placed in a hat, to dictate the text of the Book of Mormon without viewing the plates directly. 
Some witness accounts suggest that Joseph was able to translate while the plates were covered, or when they were not even in the same room with him.  Therefore, if the plates themselves were not being used during the translation process, why was it necessary to have plates at all?
Joseph did not need the plates physically present to translate, since the translation was done by revelation. The existence of the plates was vital, however, to demonstrate that the story he was translating was literally true.
The existence of the physical plates attested to the reality of the Nephite record
If there had been no plates, and Joseph had simply received the entire Book of Mormon through revelation, there would have been no Anthon visit, nor would there have been any witnesses. The very fact that plates existed served a greater purpose, even if they were not directly viewed during all of the translation process.
The plates served a variety of purposes.
- They were viewed by witnesses as solid evidence that Joseph did indeed have an ancient record.
- Joseph's efforts to obtain them over a four year period taught him and matured him in preparation for performing the translation,
- Joseph's efforts to protect and preserve them helped build his character. If Joseph were perpetrating a fraud, it would have been much simpler to claim direct revelation from God and forgo the physical plates.
- Joseph copied characters off the plates to give to Martin Harris, which he subsequently showed to Charles Anthon. This was enough to convince Martin to assist with the production of the Book of Mormon.
The plates' existence as material artifacts eliminated the possibility that Joseph was simply honestly mistaken. Either Joseph was knowingly perpetuating a fraud, or he was a genuine prophet.
The existence of actual plates eliminates the idea that the Book of Mormon was "spiritually true," but fictional
Furthermore, the existence of actual plates eliminates the idea that the Book of Mormon was "spiritually true," but fictional. There is a great difference between an allegorical or moral fiction about Nephites, and real, literal Nephites who saw a literal Christ who was literally resurrected.
Question: How do Church members assume that Joseph would have "used the plates" during translation?
The typical scenario is that Joseph employed the Nephite interpreters, the "spectacles," as if they were a pair of glasses
Let's suppose that Joseph "used the plates." How, exactly, does one think that Joseph used the plates in the translation? He couldn't read the characters. The typical scenario that is used is that he employed the Nephite interpreters, the "spectacles," as if they were a pair of glasses, and used them to look at the text on the plates as he dictated. For example, Orsamus Turner assumed that Joseph used the "spectacles" as if they were a pair of glasses capable of converting the characters:
Harris assumed, that himself and Cowdery were the chosen amanuenses, and that the Prophet Joseph, curtained from the world and them, with his spectacles, read from the gold plates what they committed to paper. 
In 1836, non-Mormon Truman Coe promoted the idea that Joseph looked through the spectacles at the characters:
The manner of translation was as wonderful as the discovery. By putting his finger on one of the characters and imploring divine aid, then looking through the Urim and Thummim, he would see the import written in plain English on a screen placed before him.
What are these "spectacles" supposed to be doing during this process? Are they somehow converting characters on the plates into English text? What is the difference between this and deducing the English text from a seer stone?
The "spectacles" were, in reality, two seer stones mounted in a frame
In reality, the "spectacles" consisted of two seer stones—they were not lenses. In addition, there are accounts indicating that Joseph actually placed the Nephite interpreters into his hat as well, to shield them from the ambient light. This is the way that several newspapers reported it:
The Gem: A Semi-Monthly Literary and Miscellaneous Journal, 5 September 1829:
By placing the spectacles in a hat and looking into it, Smith interprets the characters into the English language.
Morning Star, March 7, 1833:
an angel gave him a pair of spectacles which he put in a hat and thus read and translated, while one of the witnesses wrote it down from his mouth.
New York Weekly Messenger and Young Men’s Advocate, 29 April 1835:
Smith pretended that he had found some golden or brass plates, like the leaves of a book, hid in a box in the earth, to which he was directed by an Angel, in 1827,—that the writing on them was in the “Reformed Egyptian language,”—that he was inspired to interpret the writing, or engraving, by putting a plate in his hat, putting two smooth flat stones, which he found in the box, in the hat, and putting his face therein—that he could not write, but as he translated, one Oliver Cowdery wrote it down.
Question: How did Joseph Smith actually use the gold plates?
Joseph copied characters from the plates for Martin Harris to carry back East for verification
Joseph initially did copy characters from the plates and then translated those characters using the Nephite Interpreters. It appears this was done more than once in the beginning. It also appears that Joseph quickly learned to translate without copying the characters and later without having the plates nearby. The translation process seems to have progressed through several stages with the Nephite interpreters until Joseph discovered his seer stone worked better for him than the Interpreters.
Peterson (2005): The plates "are an indigestible lump in the throats of people...who contend that there were no Nephites but that Joseph Smith was nonetheless an inspired prophet"
Daniel C. Peterson said:
A knowledgeable academic friend who does not believe in the historical authenticity of the Book of Mormon once asked me, since it seems that the plates were not actually necessary to the translation process and were sometimes not even present in the room, what purpose they served. I responded that I did not know, exactly, except for one thing: They are an indigestible lump in the throats of people like him who contend that there were no Nephites but that Joseph Smith was nonetheless an inspired prophet. If the plates really existed, somebody made them. And if no Nephites existed to make them, then either Joseph Smith, or God, or somebody else seems to have been engaged in simple fraud. The testimony of the witnesses exists, I think, to force a dichotomous choice: true or false? 
- "Emma Smith Bidamon to Emma Pilgrim, 27 March 1870," in Dan Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 5 vols. (Salt Lake City: Signature Press, 1996-2003) 1:532.
- Brigham H. Roberts, Comprehensive History of the Church (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1965), 1:128–129. GospeLink (requires subscrip.) "[Martin Harris] said that the Prophet possessed a Seer Stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as with the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he sometimes used the Seer Stone."
- Russell M. Nelson, "A Treasured Testament," Ensign (July 1993): 61.
- "Book of Mormon Translation," Gospel Topics on LDS.org (2013).
- Gerrit Dirkmaat (Church History Department), "Great and Marvelous Are the Revelations of God," Ensign (January 2013).
- W.W. Phelps, "The Book of Mormon," The Evening and The Morning Star 1:58 .
- Stephen D. Ricks, The Translation and Publication of the Book of Mormon, Featured Papers, Maxwell Institute, Provo UT. off-site
- John Dehlin, "Questions and Answers," Mormon Stories Podcast (25 June 2014).
- Interview of Emma Smith by her son Joseph Smith III, "Interview with Joseph Smith III, 1879," in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 1:539.
- Orsamus Turner, History of the Pioneer Settlement of Phelps and Gorham’s Purchase and Morris’ Reserve (1852) 215.
- “Truman Coe Account, 1836,” in Early Mormon Documents, 1:47. Originally printed in Ohio Observer (Hudson, Ohio), 11 August 1836.
- “Golden Bible,” The Gem: A Semi-Monthly Literary and Miscellaneous Journal (Rochester, New York: 5 September 1829), 70.
- Morning Star VII/45, March 7, 1833.
- “Mormonism,” New York Weekly Messenger and Young Men’s Advocate (29 April 1835). Reprinted from The Pioneer (Rock Springs, IL), March 1835.
- Daniel C. Peterson, "Editor's Introduction—Not So Easily Dismissed: Some Facts for Which Counterexplanations of the Book of Mormon Will Need to Account," FARMS Review 17/2 (2005): xi–lxix. off-site