Detailed response to CES Letter, Scriptures

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Detailed response to CES Letter, Scriptures



A FAIR Analysis of: [[../|Letter to a CES Director]], a work by author: Jeremy Runnells
Chart CES Letter scriptures.png

Response to section "Scriptures Concerns & Questions"

Summary: The author states that "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed murder, genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, selling daughters into sex slavery, polygamy, child abuse, stoning disobedient children, pillage, plunder, sexism, racism, human sacrifice, animal sacrifice, killing people who work on the Sabbath, death penalty for those who mix cotton with polyester, and so on."


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Response to claim: "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed..."

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director {April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...

[…]

As a believing Mormon, I tried to rationalize some of the craziness by saying, “Oh, this is in the crazy Old Testament when the Law of Moses was in force. Christ came and fulfilled the Law of Moses.”

The problem with this is that the crazy god of the Old Testament was Jehovah. Who’s Jehovah? The premortal Jesus Christ. So, Christ is the crazy god of the Old Testament. The Christ of the Old Testament and the Christ of the New Testament are light years different.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The author has many concerns about the scriptures. None of the things listed are "endorsed" by God. There are several things that can be misunderstood about the scriptures that can cause concern without a proper framework to view them through. Without it, it is easy to be bogged down by how critics misrepresent and misunderstand the scriptures. At the beginning of this section from the author, we give a suggested hermeneutic for viewing these things from the scriptures. It can show a unified purpose to some of that "craziness" in the Bible.


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Response to claim: "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed murder, genocide...pillage, plunder...2. Numbers 31...3. 1 Nephi 4...7. Numbers 21: 5-9"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director {April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed murder, genocide...pillage, plunder...2. Numbers 31...3. 1 Nephi 4...4. Exodus 12:12...7. Numbers 21: 5-9...

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

These are hard scriptures to understand. These are addressed in articles or articles linked to those articles below.


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Response to claim: "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...rape...selling daughters into sex slavery, polygamy...sexism...8. Judges 19:22-29"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director {April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...rape...selling daughters into sex slavery, polygamy...sexism...8. Judges 19:22-29

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The author misrepresents the scriptures in order to score propaganda points.


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Response to claim: "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...slavery"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director {April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

"To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...slavery"

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The author misrepresents the scriptures in order to score propaganda points.


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Response to claim: "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...racism"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director {April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...racism

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The author misrepresents the scriptures in order to score propaganda points.


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Response to claim: "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...human sacrifice"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director {April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...human sacrifice

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The author misrepresents the scriptures in order to score propaganda points.


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Response to claim: "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...child abuse"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director {April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...child abuse

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The author misrepresents the scriptures in order to score propaganda points.


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Response to claim: "that Laban would send his servants after Nephi and his brothers is ridiculous considering that the same God who had no problem lighting stones and taming swarms of bees"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

The Lord commands Nephi to murder (decapitate) Laban for the brass plates. Never mind that Laban was drunk and defenseless. The argument that Laban would send his servants after Nephi and his brothers is ridiculous considering that the same God who had no problem lighting stones and taming swarms of bees (Ether 2-3) for the Brother of Jared can also preserve Nephi.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The author trivializes the scriptures in order to score propaganda points.

Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule—The author is presenting the argument in such a way that it makes his or her subject look ridiculous, usually by misrepresenting the argument or exaggerating it.


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Response to claim: "God kills all the firstborn children in Egypt except for those who put blood on their doors?"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

4. Exodus 12:12 God kills all the firstborn children in Egypt except for those who put blood on their doors? What kind of a god is this? Like the flood, what kind of a loving god would kill innocent children for the actions of others?

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Emotion—The author attempts to manipulate the reader's emotional response instead of presenting a valid argument.


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Response to claim: "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...stoning disobedient children...killing people who worked on the Sabbath, death penalty for those that mixed cotton with polyester...Got a rebellious kid who doesn’t listen? Take him to the elders and to the end of the gates and stone him to death!"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed...stoning disobedient children...killing people who worked on the Sabbath, death penalty for those that mixed cotton with polyester...Got a rebellious kid who doesn’t listen? Take him to the elders and to the end of the gates and stone him to death!

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

We should understand the bible in context and as a whole to grasp a fuller and more enlightening picture.

Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule—The author is presenting the argument in such a way that it makes his or her subject look ridiculous, usually by misrepresenting the argument or exaggerating it.


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Response to claim: "1. D&C 132"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

D&C 132: I’m supposed to believe in a god who issued an FLDS style revelation that states stuff like: the only form of polygamy permitted is a union with a virgin after first giving the opportunity to the first wife to consent to the marriage. If the first wife doesn’t consent, the husband is exempt and may still take an additional wife, but the first wife must at least have the opportunity to consent. In case the first wife doesn’t consent, she will be “destroyed.” Also, the new wife must be a virgin before the marriage and be completely monogamous after the marriage or she will be destroyed

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

Although it has been addressed elsewhere, it may be good to place responses to this claim here. The author distorts the scriptural intent. Claims of being "destroyed" are overdone. There is a possibility that the wife didn't have to be a virgin as the author claims v. 63 stipulates earlier on in the CES Letter under Concerns & Questions about Polygamy.


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Response to claim: "I’m asked to believe in not only a part-time racist god and a part-time polygamous god but a part-time psychopathic schizophrenic one as well"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

God doesn’t like to hear whining and ingratitude so he sends out a bunch of snakes to kill the people. When the people had enough of the snakes, they ask Moses to tell God to quit it. God decides Moses is persuasive and tells Moses to put a snake a pole and tell the people to look at the pole and they won’t die. So, the pole is built, the people look at it and they don’t die. The moral of the story? Don’t whine or God will send in the snakes. (Numbers 21:5-9: )
....
I’m asked to believe in not only a part-time racist god and a part-time polygamous god but a part-time psychopathic schizophrenic one as well.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The author trivializes the scriptures in order to score propaganda points.

Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Emotion—The author attempts to manipulate the reader's emotional response instead of presenting a valid argument.

Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule—The author is presenting the argument in such a way that it makes his or her subject look ridiculous, usually by misrepresenting the argument or exaggerating it.


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A FAIR Analysis of:
[[../|Letter to a CES Director]]
A work by author: Jeremy Runnells
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