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discipleship

The Ancient Art of Misleading by Selective Citation

April 29, 2016 by Gregory Smith

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A recent article was posted in which a woman struggling with her faith reported a “punch in the gut feeling” because Elder L. Whitney Clayton of the Seventy told BYU grads:

A few of you may have run into some who cease to hold fast to the iron rod wandered off the straight and narrow path, and have become lost. …. We should disconnect immediately and completely from …those who have lost their faith” [Citation as provided, no text omitted] [1]

All is not well

Our first clue that all is not right is the presence of the ellipsis: the three dots that represent omitted material: … [Read more…] about The Ancient Art of Misleading by Selective Citation

Filed Under: Anti-Mormon critics, Faith Crisis, Prophets Tagged With: apologetics, discipleship, doubt, Elder L. Whitney Clayton, Greg Smith

4th Watch 23: The challenge of discipleship

April 21, 2016 by Ned Scarisbrick

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4thWatch SmallBack in the day, late 60’s and the early 70’s just across the border in Rosarito Beach, Baja California the big “X” XERB was one of the flamethrower am radio stations of its day. The big “X” was the brainchild of Robert Weston Smith.  Bob Smith?  So who is Bob Smith?  If you don’t recognize the name you just might remember the voice.

It’s the “Wolfman.”  He was one of the most successful disk jockeys of his day.  You might remember him in the movie “American Graffiti” done by George Lucas in 1973.  The Wolfman made a considerable amount of money on the big “X” and most of it came from the late night programs that came to be known as the prayer shawl preachers or PSP’s as I call them.

At one point Wolfman Jack was said to be making over $50,000.00 a month from the revenue generated by these programs.  A considerable amount of cash back then which did NOT go unnoticed by the Mexican authorities. Kind of like when Han Solo said to Luke Skywalker in the original Star Wars movie, “ancient weapons and hokey religions are no match for a good blaster at your side kid.” The blaster of the PSP’s made the bucks.  I’m not sure how the radio station changed hands but the Wolfman got pushed out and things changed.

Running at 250,000 watts XERB could be heard from border to border.  American stations could only broadcast at 50,000 watts of power due to FCC regulations so the big “X” was quite an adventure for am radio.

If we go back further in time the most powerful commercial radio station in the ever in the USA was WLW in the (700KHz AM) in Cincinnati Ohio, which during certain times in the 1930’s broadcast 500,000 watts of radiated power.  At night, it covered half the globe.  Neighbors within the vicinity of the transmitter heard the audio in their pots, pans and mattresses, literally.  I’m providing a link in the show notes for those who may be interested in the history of WLW.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wlw

Today we have the new and improved border blasters and you’re listening to one of them now.  The internet podcast.  Just about anyone with a computer and microphone can produce and air podcasts.  For that matter you can effectively have your own TV station.  It’s called YouTube.  All without the need for mass quantities of money.

Bob Dylan sang the lyrics of our day thinking he was just talking about the days in which he lived.  That was in 1964.  Over fifty years ago. Truly the times are a changing and I would suspect that in another fifty years our todays might seem as foolish to those who look upon us from their enlightened era with mild if not outright amusement.

Some things don’t change and for good reason.  Being a disciple of Jesus Christ is one of those things that doesn’t change.  The way we show our discipleship does and should change to adapt to the environment and culture in which we live.  What may be welcomed in Mormon Central aka Salt Lake City Utah may not be well received in another part of the world but our intent should always be the same. To represent our Lord and Savior and his loving and kindness by using our hands as His hands and the tone of our voice as He would talk to those in need of His care.

In October of 2006 brother James A. Faust, second counselor in the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints offered this view of discipleship.

Our responsibility is clear for those who have received the testimony of Jesus Christ.  To become His disciples.

In doing so I try hard not to denigrate another’s testimony or their faith tradition.  In the opening of this podcast I referred to the “prayer shawl preachers” in a manner that some may see or in this case hear as unacceptable . Truth is often in the ear of the beholder because our intent is interpreted by the distance from our heads to our hearts and that takes time.  Oh, I know what you think I meant but I’m not sure what you heard is what was in my heart. Yes yes, I know. Ain’t it the truth?  Does this happen to you?  Happens to me.

When such events take place I try really hard to apologize and not defend what I said or did.  It is not about being right but building a bridge of understanding.  Brother Ned, you need to build a bridge to get over yourself!  Sorry if my style offends you.  I meant no disrespect.  I’m sorry.  Well, you’re still a jerk!  I sorry you feel that way.  It’s just my amateur attempt at humor.  Amateur?  You got that right! Now Brother Ned,…

So you got a spiritual wound did you?  Here, let me have a look under that bandaged dressing. Oh, you’ll be fine just take some Life-N-All and call me in the morning.  By the way, Life-N-All is available online at Brother Ned’s Discount Warehouse of Worship right here in Boise Idaho, say hallelujah! Life-N-All is the only supplement that contains the three essential elements to get you up to speed and keep your there.  Vitamins R, P and M.

What’s next?

Do what you can do not what someone else can do.  They may need just what you have.  Your hands may what they see and feel.  It may be your voice that offers what they need to hear.  Perhaps your smile is the one they can understand better than anyone else’s.  Make sense?

I would like to offer two extreme views of how we can experience the gospel as a disciple of Jesus.  The first one I call the “Mormon-Gnostics” or as   Cassandra Hedelius would say Mormon Gnosticism.   She gave a presentation at the August 7, 2015 annual conference of the FairMormon group about this subject which you can read with the link I’m providing in the show notes…

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2015-fairmormon-conference/a-house-of-order-a-house-of-god

They go too far.  There is little if any need of a Church structure.  The only relationship that counts is the one with the Lord.

Going to the other extreme are those whom I call the Corporate Mormons.  They have turned the gospel into a company.  By what they say and do they wind up worshipping the structure instead of He who created them.  They go too far.  If you find yourself going too far in one of these directions start asking yourself questions.  Both directions can lead to dangerous forms of discipleship.

In a Zoom conversation with Scott Gordon a few of us on the FairMormon volunteer blog list had a conversation about the direction our podcasts and written blog articles should be going.  A decision was made to focus our efforts toward your standard and average member who sit in the pews week after week.  So my podcasts are designed to fit that mold.  Mold?  Did I say mold?  Who’s mold?  Standard and average?  So the enlightened or the ultra-ignorant need not read or listen? Ultra-ignorant their talking about you Brother Ned. I’m going to take care of this right now.  Where’s the forget me stick? An effective piece of equipment to be sure.  You decide what’s best for you.  In my view there are no “molds” we are relegated to fit into.  Make up your own mind and choose for yourself.  You are a child of the ever living God. Don’t let me or anyone else tell you what or who you are.

Continuing on…

It is rather easy to see those who are becoming more Gnostic in their form of worship.  They start distancing themselves for Church activity because “they” have received the true light of the gospel.  It might be more difficult for those who are going toward the corporate world view to see that they are becoming administrators of the bureaucracy instead of a minister of the gospel.  Numbers, percentages and ratios may have value for a general overview of how a Ward or congregation is moving but if that becomes our defining attention perhaps our discipleship is moving in the wrong direction.

Next segmento…

You may have seen the movie Mars Attacks or not.  It was done is 1996 and is probably the best spoof of the fifty’s and sixty’s science fiction “B” movies ever made.  If you done seen it you know what I mean if you haven’t you might want to give it try. Extra campy and lots of great performances by well-known actors.

Peirce Brosnan who was great in the 007 movies plays a scientist in this flick who portrays great wisdom and superior knowledge to whom all most bow with awe and reverence.

In one part of the movie some engineer type comes up with a translation device of the Martian language.  All the Martians say in the movie is, ak, ak ak, ak, so we never know what they are really saying until we can hear the translation.  In the clip I’m going to let you hear tell me if it makes sense to you.

Peirce Brosnan is sitting at a table with a pipe in his hand and looking upward as if he has just heard some great new cosmic wisdom.  Also in the room is an Army general.  Both hear the same thing and the general has a different reaction to the translation than that of the great super genius professor.  Being as I’m your basic simple person and not a super genius my reaction to the translation is pretty close to the generals response.

If you are part of a group, congregation, study club or other religious / spiritual path and what you are hearing doesn’t line up with the “four points on the eternal line of wisdom” you might want consider moving away from such an affiliation.

Some of the Mormon-Gnostics may fall into this classification.  For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest is just a bunch of baloney sauce.  Don’t go in that direction.

Next…

The four points of truth? This is part of the brother Ned value system and not to be considered official doctrine but probably should be.  First point.  Our heads.  Second point.  Our hearts.  Third point. Our gut.  Point number four.  The Holy Scriptures.

You ever get that “gut” feeling you know something is just wrong or right?  What does our out gut have to do with feelings?  The Savior told us that His bowels were full of compassion.

Mosiah 15:9, “Having ascended into heaven, having the bowels of mercy; being filled with compassion towards the children of men; standing betwixt them and justice; having broken the bands of death, taken upon himself their iniquity and their transgressions, having redeemed them, and satisfied the demands of justice.”

What does mercy have to do with our bowels?  A figurative representation I would think even though back in the day they thought feelings generated in our bowels.  The Savior knew better of course but He was relating in terms they could understand without going into the science of how feelings are created.  Ever heard the saying, “go with your gut?” So, if you’re gut, heart and head line up with God’s revealed word I would say your discipleship is moving in the right direction.

Last segment…

In listening to all these colorful illustrations you may recall something the Lord has pressed upon your “four lines of truth.”   You may remember something you did or said back in your day.  Could have been in ’69 or ’89 or even in ’09 that you considered the best days of your life. A mission perhaps?  You just laid in down and forgot to pick it up again. So, how about we pick it back up and keep moving forward in our discipleship to the glory of Him who is our Lord and Savior.

President Faust offers us a good guideline…

How about if we go about doing good?  We may not need the loud voice that the border blasters used but then again we may need it to get someone’s attencion then the quit voice of love could move in to replace the giant noise of the world’s value system.

In closing what I’m about to offer as a question that just might be the most important part of this podcast.

If you’re listening say Amen…

What if the disappearance of a sense of responsibility is the most far-reaching consequence of submission to authority?

As always the views expressed in this podcast are those of the presenter and may not represent, reflect or even remotely resemble those of anyone who is lives in the real world about anything at any time but they should and are soon be canonized by the Church.  Or not… J

 

 

 

 

Filed Under: Conversion, Doctrine, FAIR Conference, Faith Crisis, General, Hosts, LDS Culture, Mormon Voices, Ned Scarisbrick, Podcast, Power of Testimony Tagged With: discipleship

RiseUp Podcast – The Choice of Discipleship

August 7, 2015 by NickGalieti

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Last_supperSome of the greatest questions that we have in life don’t arise from an unknown piece of information, rather the choices we make in the direction of our lives. There is one choice that is so fundamental that it requires both ernest study, and a lifetime of reappraisal and recommitment to that choice. I speak of the choice of discipleship.

A disciple is a title given to followers of Jesus Christ. President James E. Faust defined discipleship this way in the October 2006 General Conference:

“The word for disciple and the word for discipline both come from the same Latin root—discipulus, which means pupil. It emphasizes practice or exercise. Self-discipline and self-control are consistent and permanent characteristics of the followers of Jesus, as exemplified by Peter, James, and John, who indeed “forsook all, and followed him.” The disciples of Christ receive a call to not only forsake the pursuit of worldly things but to carry the cross daily. To carry the cross means to follow His commandments and to build up His Church on the earth. It also means self-mastery.”

In D&C 41:5 God defines further what He considers to be a disciple, “He that receiveth my law and doeth it, the same is my disciple; and he that saith he receiveth it and doeth it not, the same is not my disciple, and shall be cast out from among you.”

In other scriptures are additional ways to describe the acts and therefore the character of a disciple. Sometimes this is further emphasized by stating behaviors that distinguish an individual as lacking the characteristics of a disciple. D&C 45:32 addresses the disciples choice to be steadfast and to be found doing the right things, in the right place, at the right time, “But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved; but among the wicked, men shall lift up their voices and curse God and die.”

D&C 52:40 addresses the need to love and care for our neighbors, “And remember in all things the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted, for he that doeth not these things, the same is not my disciple.”

D&C 103:27-28 speaks to the level of commitment that a disciple must have to the commandments and principles of Jesus Christ and His gospel, “Let no man be afraid to lay down his life for my sake; for whoso layeth down his life for my sake shall find it again. And whoso is not willing to lay down his life for my sake is not my disciple.”

President James E. Faust also taught this the same October 2006 General Conference talk:

What is discipleship? It is primarily obedience to the Savior. Discipleship includes many things. It is chastity. It is tithing. It is family home evening. It is keeping all the commandments. It is forsaking anything that is not good for us. Everything in life has a price. Considering the Savior’s great promise for peace in this life and eternal life in the life to come, discipleship is a price worth paying. It is a price we cannot afford not to pay. By measure, the requirements of discipleship are much, much less than the promised blessings.”

As stated before, the choice of discipleship is a two part choice. First one must study and come to know the life of a disciple. The second is to remain true to that commitment and to that lifestyle unceasingly. The best source for studying the life of a disciple is to study the life of Jesus Christ. He is the example of who a disciple can and should become, and it is in His teachings that we learn how to act as he would act. A disciple must choose to follow the Savior’s example and teachings.

When a person is baptized into the church, this acts as a formal declaration of discipleship. Elder Daniel L. Johnson of the Seventy said this in the October 2012 General Conference:

“Those of us who have entered into the waters of baptism and received the gift of the Holy Ghost have covenanted that we are willing to take upon ourselves the name of Jesus Christ, or in other words, we declare ourselves to be disciples of the Lord. We renew that covenant each week as we partake of the sacrament, and we demonstrate that discipleship by the way that we live.”

Those of who have been baptized have made the choice of discipleship, but we have also promised to always keep true to that commitment. This choice does not come with an exist strategy, vacation days, or an expiration date. President Dieter F. Uchtdorf said this in the April 2014 General Conference, “Being a disciple of Jesus Christ is not an effort of once a week or once a day. It is an effort of once and for all.”

When placed up against physical or spiritual trials, maybe even those where we question our faith, or waver in our commitments due to feeling a sense of being overwhelmed, the choice to continue in discipleship can seem especially difficult.

When a person comes across a troubling piece of history, or social pressures to accept a lifestyle or practice that is contrary to gospel standards, one may begin to question that choice of discipleship. Other times we observe challenges in our life that are more situational, such as a loss of job, the death of a loved one, or pressing issues like experiencing same sex attraction, gender confusion, or mental health issues like depression or anxiety, and wonder if God is real, or even ask “for what evil am I being punished?” Another question that is commonly asked is, “Why should I be so committed to something that is hard to understand, or seems to conflict with what I now know?” I too, have had moments where I questioned my commitments in light of certain trials of faith, or due to the choices others have made that have had an adverse impact on my dedication.

In those times I try to remind myself that I am not alone in these feelings. Even the Savior’s chosen Apostles in the old world, often called disciples in the scriptures, had periods of wavering commitment.

Jeffrey R. Holland gave a powerful lesson in the October 2012 General Conference entitled The First Great Commandment. I encourage a weekly study of that talk as part of our sacrament preparation. In that talk Elder Holland recounts the story of Peter and the other disciples being called, ministering for three years with the Savior, then going back to fishing-back to their previous life. I offer this story because within its text is the key to self-appraising our level of commitment, but also the methods to finding the desire to re-ignite that commitment time and time again.

“There is almost no group in history for whom I have more sympathy than I have for the eleven remaining Apostles immediately following the death of the Savior of the world. I think we sometimes forget just how inexperienced they still were and how totally dependent upon Jesus they had of necessity been. To them He had said, “Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me … ?”

But, of course, to them He hadn’t been with them nearly long enough. Three years isn’t long to call an entire Quorum of Twelve Apostles from a handful of new converts, purge from them the error of old ways, teach them the wonders of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and then leave them to carry on the work until they too were killed. Quite a staggering prospect for a group of newly ordained elders.

Especially the part about being left alone. Repeatedly Jesus had tried to tell them He was not going to remain physically present with them, but they either could not or would not comprehend such a wrenching thought. Mark writes:

“He taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. “But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.”

Then, after such a short time to learn and even less time to prepare, the unthinkable happened, the unbelievable was true. Their Lord and Master, their Counselor and King, was crucified. His mortal ministry was over, and the struggling little Church He had established seemed doomed to scorn and destined for extinction. His Apostles did witness Him in His resurrected state, but that only added to their bewilderment. As they surely must have wondered, “What do we do now?” they turned for an answer to Peter, the senior Apostle.

Here I ask your indulgence as I take some nonscriptural liberty in my portrayal of this exchange. In effect, Peter said to his associates: “Brethren, it has been a glorious three years. None of us could have imagined such a few short months ago the miracles we have seen and the divinity we have enjoyed. We have talked with, prayed with, and labored with the very Son of God Himself. We have walked with Him and wept with Him, and on the night of that horrible ending, no one wept more bitterly than I. But that is over. He has finished His work, and He has risen from the tomb. He has worked out His salvation and ours. So you ask, ‘What do we do now?’ I don’t know more to tell you than to return to your former life, rejoicing. I intend to ‘go a fishing.’” And at least six of the ten other remaining Apostles said in agreement, “We also go with thee.” John, who was one of them, writes, “They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately.”

But, alas, the fishing wasn’t very good. Their first night back on the lake, they caught nothing—not a single fish. With the first rays of dawn, they disappointedly turned toward the shore, where they saw in the distance a figure who called out to them, “Children, have you caught anything?” Glumly these Apostles-turned-again-fishermen gave the answer no fisherman wants to give. “We have caught nothing,” they muttered, and to add insult to injury, they were being called “children.”

“Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find,” the stranger calls out—and with those simple words, recognition begins to flood over them. Just three years earlier these very men had been fishing on this very sea. On that occasion too they had “toiled all the night, and [had] taken nothing,” the scripture says. But a fellow Galilean on the shore had called out to them to let down their nets, and they drew “a great multitude of fishes,” enough that their nets broke, the catch filling two boats so heavily they had begun to sink.

Now it was happening again. These “children,” as they were rightly called, eagerly lowered their net, and “they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.” John said the obvious: “It is the Lord.” And over the edge of the boat, the irrepressible Peter leaped.

After a joyful reunion with the resurrected Jesus, Peter had an exchange with the Savior that I consider the crucial turning point of the apostolic ministry generally and certainly for Peter personally, moving this great rock of a man to a majestic life of devoted service and leadership. Looking at their battered little boats, their frayed nets, and a stunning pile of 153 fish, Jesus said to His senior Apostle, “Peter, do you love me more than you love all this?” Peter said, “Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee.”

The Savior responds to that reply but continues to look into the eyes of His disciple and says again, “Peter, do you love me?” Undoubtedly confused a bit by the repetition of the question, the great fisherman answers a second time, “Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee.”

The Savior again gives a brief response, but with relentless scrutiny He asks for the third time, “Peter, do you love me?” By now surely Peter is feeling truly uncomfortable. Perhaps there is in his heart the memory of only a few days earlier when he had been asked another question three times and he had answered equally emphatically—but in the negative. Or perhaps he began to wonder if he misunderstood the Master Teacher’s question. Or perhaps he was searching his heart, seeking honest confirmation of the answer he had given so readily, almost automatically. Whatever his feelings, Peter said for the third time, “Lord, … thou knowest that I love thee.”

To which Jesus responded (and here again I acknowledge my nonscriptural elaboration), perhaps saying something like: “Then Peter, why are you here? Why are we back on this same shore, by these same nets, having this same conversation? Wasn’t it obvious then and isn’t it obvious now that if I want fish, I can get fish? What I need, Peter, are disciples—and I need them forever. I need someone to feed my sheep and save my lambs. I need someone to preach my gospel and defend my faith. I need someone who loves me, truly, truly loves me, and loves what our Father in Heaven has commissioned me to do. Ours is not a feeble message. It is not a fleeting task. It is not hapless; it is not hopeless; it is not to be consigned to the ash heap of history. It is the work of Almighty God, and it is to change the world. So, Peter, for the second and presumably the last time, I am asking you to leave all this and to go teach and testify, labor and serve loyally until the day in which they will do to you exactly what they did to me.”

Then, turning to all the Apostles, He might well have said something like: “Were you as foolhardy as the scribes and Pharisees? As Herod and Pilate? Did you, like they, think that this work could be killed simply by killing me? Did you, like they, think the cross and the nails and the tomb were the end of it all and each could blissfully go back to being whatever you were before? Children, did not my life and my love touch your hearts more deeply than this?”

My beloved brothers and sisters, I am not certain just what our experience will be on Judgment Day, but I will be very surprised if at some point in that conversation, God does not ask us exactly what Christ asked Peter: “Did you love me?” I think He will want to know if in our very mortal, very inadequate, and sometimes childish grasp of things, did we at least understand one commandment, the first and greatest commandment of them all—“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind.” And if at such a moment we can stammer out, “Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee,” then He may remind us that the crowning characteristic of love is always loyalty.

“If ye love me, keep my commandments,” Jesus said. So we have neighbors to bless, children to protect, the poor to lift up, and the truth to defend. We have wrongs to make right, truths to share, and good to do. In short, we have a life of devoted discipleship to give in demonstrating our love of the Lord. We can’t quit and we can’t go back.”

If you want answers to questions about historical events, if you want answers on who to marry, if you want answers on wether or not to go or even stay on a mission, remembering and recommitting to your choice of discipleship will put you back in a mindset to feel and recognize the spirit. It is that spirit that will guide you into truth and will guide you to an exalted life. If we can answer that now famous question, “Do you love me?” with a “yes, I do love thee Lord,” we can feel of His love, we can be open to the promptings of the spirit, and we can find answers to difficult questions we may face. In essence we can feel peace. I have felt that peace in my own life and I can testify that this is true. I do love the Lord, and that choice to love the Lord is the choice of discipleship.

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Filed Under: Conversion, Faith Crisis, General, Hosts, Nick Galieti, Podcast, Power of Testimony, RiseUp, Youth Tagged With: commitment, discipleship

Articles of Faith Podcast: Jeffrey Thayne – Some Thoughts on Discipleship and “Staying Mormon”

May 26, 2015 by NickGalieti

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Jeffrey ThayneJeffrey Thayne grew up in Elk Ridge, Utah, collecting bugs in the woodland hills behind his home. He has wanted to be a physicist, a detective, a entomologist, a cartographer, an explorer, a linguist, an astronaut, an architect, a writer, a teacher, a video-game programmer, and all of the above. He therefore graduated from BYU in April 2009 with a degree in psychology, a master’s degree in psychology at BYU, and is finishing a PhD in Instructional Technology and Learning Sciences at Utah State University. Jeff is the author of the blog article on Millennial Star.org entitled: Some Thoughts on Discipleship and “Staying Mormon”.

Questions addressed in this episode:

You often write responses to current events, or even criticisms that are leveled against the church. In your recent article on MillennialStar, you respond to an article entitled How to Stay Mormon When You’re Tired of Mormons. What is the article and how would you classify it?

Who, as you see it, is the audience for that original article?

Doubt. So many different ways to look at, and approach doubt when it comes to the LDS Church, its teachings and its culture. How do you address the subject of doubt in this article?

I got the impression that you were hoping to speak to the same audience as the original article but offer a different approach to the issues and challenges this audience may face. You give three suggestions (other than the title) to help people feel more at home in the church, as you put it “not strangers, or foreigners.”

1. Remember that Christ is the cornerstone of our faith.

2. Find opportunities to communicate with God.

3. Remember the covenants we have made with God.

It’s hard to want to be committed to covenants that have been made to a person you don’t like or agree with. It’s hard to want to be someone’s friend when you feel like there are problems with your friendship. It is hard to want to be married when you don’t love or agree with the person. So #3 seems like a really hard thing to wrap your head around when you are going through what many refer to as doubts. How do covenants help someone over come doubt?

In the article you make the assertion that there are two dichotomous paradigms that seem to pervade the LDS experience. Expressive Individualism, and Discipleship. What are these two things and how do they relate?

You also introduce an idea I had not really spent much time considering with respect to the general view of the Church, its role in our spirituality, and our relationship with it, by putting forward that idea of viewing church as a consumer? What do you mean by that and how does it relate?

Jeffrey Thayne is the author of several blog articles at Millennial Star.org.

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Filed Under: Articles of Faith, Faith Crisis, Hosts, LDS Culture, Nick Galieti, Podcast Tagged With: discipleship, doubt, Staying mormon

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