• Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar
  • Skip to footer

FAIR

  • Find Answers
  • Blog
  • Media & Apps
  • Conference
  • Bookstore
  • Archive
  • About
  • Get Involved
  • Search

Apologetics

Mormon Fair-cast 294: #4, Is the Bible an authentic source of truth?

October 9, 2014 by Ned Scarisbrick

https://media.blubrry.com/mormonfaircast/www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/KT_AUTH-Of-BIBLE_4-Pod.mp3

Podcast: Download (17.4MB)

Subscribe: RSS

i-believe-podcast-karen-239x300This is the 4th in a series of 9 interviews, D.M. Johnson, author and Bible scholar, and I discuss the archaeological evidence for the Bible. We’ll discuss the following archaeological evidence:

  • The Dead Sea Scrolls

  • Ossuaries and inscriptions which corroborate Biblical figures

  • Archaeological sites, including the Western Wailing Wall, the Parthenon, and Mars Hill

  • The Cyrus Cylinder

  • Clay cuneiform tablets from ancient Mesopotamia

Once again, our discussion invites you to consider the evidences supporting the Bible.

We also invite you to read the Bible for yourself, because in addition to these physical evidences of its historicity, you can also obtain a spiritual witness from God concerning its truthfulness.

Click here to view the complete transcript.

This series of podcasts were produced by the “I Believe” podcast group. They are used by permission of Karen Trifiletti the author of this work.

As always the view and opinions expressed in this podcast may not represent those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint or that of FairMormon

 

Filed Under: Apologetics, Bible, Conversion, Dead Sea Scrolls, Doctrine, Early Christianity, FAIR Conference, Faith Crisis, General, Mormon Voices, Philosophy, Podcast, Power of Testimony

Does God Authorize His Prophets to Make Mistakes?

October 7, 2014 by SteveDensleyJr

Crucible_of_Doubt

[The Crucible of Doubt can be purchased from the FairMormon Bookstore.]

Within the past year, the Church published an article addressing the fact that for a long period in the Church’s history, black men were not allowed to be ordained to the priesthood.[i] The article acknowledged that leaders of the Church gave explanations for the ban that we now recognize as being incorrect. For some people, this article has raised as many questions as it answered. While many have experienced a sense of relief in seeing the Church disavow explanations for the ban that denigrated those of African descent, others have experienced a new sense of anxiety over the question of the extent to which we can rely on the teachings of the prophets and apostles. And to what extent can we be confident that the policies adopted by the Church are ordained of God?

Terryl and Fiona Givens directly addressed the question of prophetic infallibility in their book Crucible of Doubt: Reflections on the Quest for Faith. Terryl Givens has earlier, if only briefly, addressed this question, in his “Letter to a Doubter.”[ii] In their new book, the Givenses expand on this issue. The “Letter to a Doubter” essentially limited itself to a discussion of the fact that prophets are human, and humans make mistakes. However, chapter six of The Crucible of Doubt goes into more depth regarding the principles of delegation of authority and prophets as agents for God.

The concept of God delegating his authority to men on Earth and making them His agents, who act on His behalf, is not a new one. However, the Givenses discuss the concept in a way that may help illuminate the mechanism by which prophets act on God’s behalf and why doing so does not ensure that mistakes will not be made by God’s agents.

The title of chapter six is “On Delegation and Discipleship: The Ring of Pharaoh.” This title is a reference to the story of Joseph of Egypt:

When Joseph of the many-colored coat had gained Pharaoh’s complete trust and confidence, “Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph’s hand.” With this gesture, Pharaoh transferred his own power and authority to the former Hebrew slave. “Without your consent,” the Pharaoh told him, “no one shall lift up hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.”[iii]

Of course, when authority is delegated, it does not mean that the agent will always do precisely what is intended by the one delegating authority. This is obvious in the context of human interactions. However, we sometimes may hope and expect that when God delegates authority to a prophet, that the human in this scenario will somehow rise to the level of perfection inhabited by the one who has delegated the authority; that if one is acting for God, one will act like God. However, the scriptures do not give us this assurance.

In fact, the scriptures provide plenty of examples of prophets making mistakes and acting in ways that could be considered ungodly. For example, Moses disobeyed God’s instruction to speak to the rock and instead hit it. He then attributed the miracle to himself and Aaron, saying, “Must we fetch you water out of this rock?” He was chastised by the Lord afterward. (Numbers 20.) Nathan told David that the Lord approved of his desire to build a temple, and that he should commence the project. The Lord later told Nathan that such was not His desire, and that he was to tell David that the temple would be built by another. (2 Samuel 7.) And Jonah felt some personal prejudices against Assyrians, to the point of expecting the Lord to give them fewer blessings than to Jews. (Jonah 4.)

So prophets can guide us and direct us, but they can also test our faith, not just in calling us to live on a higher plane, but also in demonstrating that they do not always reach a higher plane themselves. In light of this, the Givenses note:

And if delegation is a real principle—if God really does endow mortals with the authority to act in His place and with His authority, even while He knows they will not act with infallible judgment—then it becomes clearer why God is asking us to receive the words of the prophet “as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.”[iv]

Of course, most of us are familiar with the observation made by Joseph Smith that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such” (HC 5:265). We also often hear repeated the scripture, “whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.” (D&C 1:38.) When these two statements are considered at once, we may tend to think that if we can just determine whether or not a prophet is acting as a prophet, or as God’s “servant,” we will know whether or not we can consider his words to be the infallible words of God. It may seem that if the president of the Church makes a statement that we later learn to be untrue, or enacts a policy that seems to have been mistaken, we can find comfort in the notion that the man may not have been acting on behalf of God on those occasions. This becomes more difficult, however, when a statement is made, or a policy announced, in General Conference, or on Church letterhead along with the signatures or other members of the First Presidency.

But perhaps in thinking this, we have misunderstood the principle of delegation of authority. For example, while there are statements that have been understood to mean that prophets, or God’s servants, cannot err when acting as God’s servants, the scriptures themselves undercut this interpretation. For example, while D&C Section 1 says “whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same,” a few verses earlier, we read:

Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding. And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known; And inasmuch as they sought wisdom they might be instructed; And inasmuch as they sinned they might be chastened, that they might repent; And inasmuch as they were humble they might be made strong, and blessed from on high, and receive knowledge from time to time.

(D&C 1:24-28; emphasis added).

Another commonly quoted statement in support of the concept of prophetic inerrancy is that of Wilford Woodruff, when, speaking of abandoning the practice of polygamy, he said:

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. [v]

However, in addition to the aforementioned reasons to doubt that this statement supports the view that prophets cannot make mistakes, Elders Packer and Uchtdorf have given us additional reasons to doubt this conclusion. Elder Uchtdorf said, “This is the Church of Jesus Christ. God will not allow His Church to drift from its appointed course or fail to fulfill its divine destiny.”[vi] Elder Packer added that “…even with the best of intentions, it [the governance of the Church by mortal priesthood holders] does not always work the way it should. Human nature may express itself on occasion, but not to the permanent injury of the work.”[vii] In other words, while leaders can make mistakes, God will not allow the leaders to utterly destroy the work of the latter-day Church or cause the members to lose their opportunity to receive exaltation.

So when God says that the prophet is His agent on Earth, perhaps He is not saying that, when acting as the prophet, the man will always do exactly what God wants any more than by giving Joseph his ring, Pharaoh was assuring the people of Egypt that Joseph would always do exactly what Pharaoh would have done in his place. Right or wrong, the people of Egypt were to consider Joseph’s actions to be the actions of Pharaoh and were to be bound by Joseph’s words and actions as if they were the words and actions of Pharaoh.

Of course, this principle is not limited to the delegation of authority to a prophet. The Givenses ask “If a bishop makes a decision without inspiration, are we bound to sustain the decision?” And what if an apostle makes a mistake in calling a stake president?

The story is told of a Church official who returned from installing a new stake presidency. “Dad, do you Brethren feel confident when you call a man as the stake president that he is the Lord’s man?” the official’s son asked upon his father’s return home. “No, not always,” he replied. “But once we call him, he becomes the Lord’s man.” The answer disconcerts initially. Is this not hubris, to expect God’s sanction for a decision made in error? Perhaps. It is also possible that the reply reveals the only understanding of delegation that is viable.[viii]

The Givenses continue by observing:

If God honored only those decisions made in perfect accord with His perfect wisdom, then His purposes would require leaders who were utterly incapable of misconstruing His intention, who never missed hearing the still small voice, who were unerringly and unfailingly a perfect conduit for heaven’s inspiration. And it would render the principle of delegation inoperative. The Pharaoh didn’t say to Joseph, your authority extends as far as you anticipate perfectly what I would do in every instance. He gave Joseph his ring…. And after calling Joseph Smith to his mission, the Lord didn’t say, I will stand by you as long as you never err in judgment. He said, “Thou wast called and chosen. . . . Devote all thy service in Zion; and . . . lo, I am with thee, even unto the end.”[ix]

In light of all this, what are we to believe, ask the Givenses, when confronted by “faith-wrenching practices (polygamy), missteps and errors (Adam-God), and teachings that the Church has abandoned but not fully explained (the priesthood ban).”[x] In response, they quote the Anglican churchman Austin Farrer, who said “Facts are not determined by authority. Authority can make law to be law; authority cannot make facts to be facts.”[xi] To this, they add the words of Henry Eyring, who once quoted his father as saying, “in this church you don’t have to believe anything that isn’t true.”[xii]

Of course, while we may harbor misgivings in our minds regarding some policy, teaching or practice, how are we to act when confronted with doubts about whether or not an agent of God is actually doing God’s will? In response to this issue, Farrer is again quoted: “If Peter and his colleagues make law in applying the Lord’s precepts, . . . their law is the law of Christ’s Church, the best (if you will) that God’s Spirit can make with human instruments there and then, and, as such, to be obeyed as the will of God Himself. But to call Peter infallible in this connection is to misplace an epithet.”[xiii]

To carry the metaphor of agency and delegation further, we can consider the legal realm. What recourse exists against a principle when the agent causes some harm? Under the doctrine of agency law, if a person is injured by an agent who is acting under the authority of the principle, the principle will be liable for the harm and is required to set things right. Of course, while all wrongs and injustices have not yet been set right in this imperfect world, Christ has already paid the price for such wrongs. In other words, the miracle of delegation of divine authority does not ensure that the agent will always act according to God’s will. Rather, it ensures that God will guarantee the actions of the agent, and if the actions are wrong, through Christ’s atonement, all will be made right in the end. Indeed, even those things that can cause fear, doubt and pain can be made to benefit us in the end:

One comfort is to be found in a God whose power is in His magnanimity as well as His wisdom. These two traits mean that His divine energies are spent not in precluding chaos but in reordering it, not in preventing suffering but in alchemizing it, not in disallowing error but in transmuting it into goodness.[xiv]

Even the agents of God, even when acting as God’s agents, can cause fear, pain and confusion in this world. Although this may frustrate us, it does not frustrate God’s plan. In closing, we are reminded that the words of God’s servants can provide comfort and direction, even when counseling us regarding the imperfect words and actions of God’s servants themselves:

“Imperfect people are all God has ever had to work with,” reminds Elder Jeffrey Holland. “That must be terribly frustrating to Him, but He deals with it. So should we.” Generosity with our own inept attempts to serve and minister to each other in a lay church, charity toward those in leadership who, as President Dieter Uchtdorf noted, have “said or done [things] that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine,” and faith in Christ’s Atonement that makes up the human deficit—these could be the balm of Gilead for which both wounded disciples and striving leaders seek.[xv]

[i] Race and the Priesthood.

[ii] Terryl L. Givens, “Letter to a Doubter,” Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture 4 (2013): 131-146. An audio version was published on FairMormon Blog.

[iii] Terryl Givens & Fiona Givens, The Crucible of Doubt (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2014), 73, citing Genesis 41:42 & 44, NRSV.

[iv] Givens & Givens, 75, citing D&C 21:5 (emphasis added).

[v] Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, 6 October 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News (11 October 1890): 2; cited in LDS scriptures after Official Declaration 1.

[vi] Dieter F. Uchtdorf, “Come Join With Us,” general conference, October 2013.

[vii] Boyd K. Packer, “”I Say unto You, Be One,'” in BYU Devotional and Fireside Speeches, 1990–1991 (Provo, Utah: University Publications, 1991), 84, emphasis added.

[viii] Givens & Givens, 75-76, citing a personal conversation reported to authors by Robert L. Millet.

[ix] Ibid., 76, quoting D&C 24:1, 7, 8.

[x] Ibid., 74.

[xi] Ibid., 74, quoting Austin Farrer, “Infallibility and Historical Tradition,” in The Truth-Seeking Heart, ed. Ann Loades and Robert MacSwain (Norwich: Canterbury Press, 2006), 83.

[xii] Ibid., 74, quoting Henry J. Eyring, Mormon Scientist: The Life and Faith of Henry Eyring (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2007), 4.

[xiii] Ibid., 74-75, quoting Farrer, “Infallibility,” 83–84.

[xiv] Ibid., 78.

[xv] Ibid., 82, quoting Jeffrey R. Holland, “Lord, I Believe,” Ensign, May 2013, 94 and Dieter F. Uchtdorf, “Come, Join with Us,” Ensign, November 2013, 22.

Filed Under: Apologetics, Book reviews, Doctrine, Racial Issues

Fair Issues 69: Where is the land Bountiful?

October 5, 2014 by Ned Scarisbrick

https://media.blubrry.com/mormonfaircast/www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Fair-Issues-69-Pod.mp3

Podcast: Download (7.0MB)

Subscribe: RSS

MAIn this podcast brother Ash discusses possible locations for the land Bountiful.

Current research supports the view presented in the Book of Mormon. In the southern Arabia country of Oman near the border of Yemen is a costal province known a Dhofar which has a fertile region – only a few miles wide – on the coast of the Arabian Sea.  This mountainous area covers more than 38,000 miles square miles and historically was the chief source of frankincense in the world.

The full text of this article can be found at Deseret News online.

Brother Ash is author of the book Shaken Faith Syndrome: Strengthening One’s Testimony in the Face of Criticism and Doubt, as well as the book, of Faith and Reason: 80 Evidences Supporting the Prophet Joseph Smith. Both books are available for purchase online through the FairMormon Bookstore. Tell your friends about the Mormon Fair-Cast. Share a link on your Facebook page and help increase the popularity of the Mormon Fair-Cast by subscribing to this podcast in iTunes, and by rating it and writing a review.

The views and opinions expressed in the podcast may not reflect those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or that of FairMormon

 

Filed Under: Anti-Mormon critics, Apologetics, Book of Mormon, Evidences, Faith Crisis, General, Geography, Hosts, Joseph Smith, LDS History, Michael R. Ash, Mormon Voices, Ned Scarisbrick, Podcast, Power of Testimony

Mormon Fair-cast 289: #3, Is the Bible an authentic source of truth?

October 2, 2014 by Ned Scarisbrick

https://media.blubrry.com/mormonfaircast/www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/KT_AUTH-OF-BIBLE-POD_3.mp3

Podcast: Download (27.0MB)

Subscribe: RSS

i-believe-podcast-karen-239x300This third interview in a series of nine with guest D.M. Johnson discusses the manuscript evidence for the Bible. Karen and Dave go more in-depth on the wealth of manuscript evidence that exists for the Bible, particularly the New Testament.

They discuss the following topics:

  • Criteria the ancients used for placing a book or epistle in the Bible

  • Number and origin of ancient manuscripts

  • Variants between the manuscripts and how these affect our understanding of the Bible

Most importantly, they witness that the Bible is indeed God’s word, and invite all listeners to read and pray about its truthfulness.

You can find the complete transcript here

This series of podcasts were produced by the “I Believe” podcast group. They are used by permission of Karen Trifiletti the author of this work.

As always the view and opinions expressed in this podcast may not represent those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint or that of FairMormon

Filed Under: Anti-Mormon critics, Apologetics, Bible, Early Christianity, Evidences, First Vision, General, Interfaith Dialogue, Mormon Voices, Podcast, Power of Testimony

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 6

September 29, 2014 by Mike Ash

MAThe following series of articles is a fictional dialogue between Shane and Doug, two former missionary companions many years after their missions. Shane writes to his friend Doug who has posted comments about his on-going faith crisis on Facebook. The characters are fictionalized composites of members who have faced these same dilemmas but the issues are based on very real problems which have caused some to stumble. Likewise, the responding arguments are based on the author’s own personal engagement with these same concerns as well as his discussion of these issues with other members who have struggled. (By Michael R. Ash, author of Shaken Faith Syndrome: Strengthening One’s Testimony in the Face of Criticism and Doubt, and Of Faith and Reason: 80 Evidences Supporting the Prophet Joseph Smith, and Director of Media Products for FairMormon.)

Dear Doug,

I’m glad to hear that you are reading the Book of Mormon again. I hope you are reading it with a spirit of seeking the truth, not just to see if you can find “problems.” People tend to find what they are searching for.

Let’s begin this discussion with your concerns about the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated.

Like virtually every Mormon, I was taught that Joseph Smith translated the golden plates by way of the Urim and Thummim—a holy relic that looked like spectacles and were somehow attached to a breastplate. The Urim and Thummim, I was told, were among the items Moroni buried in the box containing the golden plates.

The truth is, however, that the Book of Mormon doesn’t refer to the translating tool as the “Urim and Thummim.” The Book of Mormon calls them the “Interpreters” (Mosiah 8:13). Some early Latter-day Saints began referring to the Interpreters as the “Urim and Thummim”—a reference to a device in the Old Testament that was associated with the High Priest’s breastplate and used for divination or for receiving answers from God (see Exodus 28:30). The early Saints didn’t think that the Nephite Interpreters were the Urim and Thummim mentioned in the Bible but were another Urim and Thummim given for translating the plates.

When I was a fairly young man I read several LDS publications about Joseph Smith’s history—all books that could be found at Deseret Book or in the Institute Library. I quickly learned that Joseph sometimes used a seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon. The fact was in no way hidden from members who were interested in reading Church history. During my own faith crisis, however, there were two things that surprised and bothered about the translation process. First was the fact that Joseph put the stone in a hat, and peered into the hat while translating. The second troubling issue (for me) was that Joseph obviously believed in “magical” divining by way of seer stones. I had never heard of either of these two points before, and I must admit that I was initially shaken by the disclosure.

Unfortunately, my image of the translation process was like that of the typical member—it was based on what I had seen in Church magazines and comments from Sunday school teachers rather than from a critical examination of the historical evidence. Most artists, however, are not historians and occasionally produce artwork that is based on misassumptions. Some wonderful LDS artwork, for example, depicts Caucasian-looking Nephites with romance-novel cover-model physiques wielding broadswords and Viking-like helmets—none of which fits the actual images that could be created for how early American warriors would have looked or the weapons they would have utilized.

The average painting of the Savior typically falls victim to similar problems with features generally based on the cultural or theological perspectives of the artist rather than on historical accuracy. Da Vinci’s “Last Supper,” for example, depicts European-looking men sitting at a regular table instead of Middle Eastern men reclining at the low tables of Jesus’ day. An Italian Renaissance portrait of Mary and the baby Jesus has a Renaissance castle and town in the background, and the 1569 “Census of Bethlehem” by a Belgian artist depicts snow and ice-skaters in what appears to be a Renaissance Belgium village.

The truth is that the Interpreters didn’t come with instructions and Joseph was apparently left on his own as to how to use them. This is when his cultural background came in handy. In Joseph Smith’s day many of the frontiersmen in his vicinity believed that divining rods and seer stones could be used to find water, lost objects, and treasures. The ability to divine was generally considered to be a God-given gift and was practiced by devoutly religious men and women.

Long prior to acquiring the plates the young Joseph Smith was a believer in divination. In fact, he and his friends and family believed that he had the God-given gift to find lost objects by way of a seer stone. Seer stones were thought to be special stones in which one could see the location of the object for which one was divining. The seer stones were related to crystal balls or the practice of looking into pools of water or mirrors to divine information (such as the Queen’s magic mirror in the Snow White tale).

I already knew—but hadn’t made the connection until I began learning about Joseph’s translation process—that some people in Joseph’s day used divining stones. I recalled reading Joseph’s history by his mother Lucy Mack Smith (a book I read when I was about 16). In that book Lucy told about a company of men who were trying to get the plates from Joseph and brought a woman who could find things by looking into a green rock. She apparently came within inches of finding the plates!

While this seems strange in modern times, in Joseph’s day many intelligent, educated, and religious people believed that such real powers existed in the forces of nature. Well into the nineteenth-century, for instance, a number of people believed in alchemy—the belief that baser metals could be turned into gold. Some of New England’s practicing alchemists were graduates from Yale and Harvard and one alchemist was the Chief Justice of Massachusetts.

In order to see inside of the stone, it was sometimes placed between one’s eye and the flicker of a candle, or into something dark—such as an upside down hat—to shield out all light. It was believed that in such an environment a seer (someone who “sees”) could stare into the stone for the information one was seeking.

When Joseph first acquired the Nephite Interpreters he also tried placing them into a hat to shield the light. Although he apparently managed to translate the 116 lost pages by this method he complained that he had a hard time fitting the spectacles into the hat and that the two lenses were set too far apart—and were apparently made for someone with a broader face. It gave him eyestrain when he stared into the lenses.

After Joseph lost the first 116 pages, the Interpreters and his gift to translate were temporarily taken away. Eventually, after repenting, Joseph’s gift was returned but instead of using the Nephite Interpreters Joseph was allowed to use his seer stone to finish the translating process. In Joseph’s “language” the seer stone had the same properties as the Interpreters and was therefore also a Urim and Thummin. So when many early records speak of Joseph translating by way of the Urim and Thummim they are generally referring to the seer stone and not the Interpreters. Unfortunately, through time, members have forgotten about the seer stone (as divination become less accepted by society) and eventually most members assumed that the only Urim and Thummim Joseph used was the Interpreters.

The seer stone made the translating process much easier and we read that Joseph would sit for hours, his face in the hat—to obscure the light—while he saw the English translation of the Book of Mormon text that he dictated to his scribes.

The more I thought about it, the less the translation process bothered me. I already believed that Joseph Smith translated by way of a sacred “rock”—the Urim and Thummim—why would it seem so odd that God gave Joseph the power to translated with a “rock” from his own culture—the “seer stone”? And in hindsight, I already knew that other people in Joseph’s vicinity used seer stones in “magical” ways. If Joseph and the people of his day believed that you could see other-worldly things in special rocks, why couldn’t God use that cultural belief as a focal point for Joseph to receive revelation regarding the content of the Book of Mormon? How Joseph translated the plates was really unimportant compared to what he gave us in that translation.

Your friend,

Shane

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 5

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 4

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 3

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 2

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion

Filed Under: Apologetics

Fair Issues 68: Exploring the journey of Lehi’s family

September 27, 2014 by Ned Scarisbrick

https://media.blubrry.com/mormonfaircast/www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Fair-Issues-68-Pod.mp3

Podcast: Download (6.8MB)

Subscribe: RSS

MAAmong the earliest LDS researchers to explore the likely path trekked by the Lehites, we would be remiss if we failed to include Lynn and Hope Hilton.  In the early 1970’s, building on some of Hugh Nibley’s textual speculations, the Hiltons journeyed to Arabia – traveling over 2,000 miles through the Arabian Peninsula – photographed the landscape, and wrote about their findings.  Some of their photos and thoughts were published in a two-part series in the Ensign in September and October of 1976.

In this podcast Michael R. Ash explores the possible journey of Lehi’s family as they traveled in the wilderness before they left on their voyage to the new world.

The full text of this article can be found at Deseret News online.

Brother Ash is author of the book Shaken Faith Syndrome: Strengthening One’s Testimony in the Face of Criticism and Doubt, as well as the book, of Faith and Reason: 80 Evidences Supporting the Prophet Joseph Smith. Both books are available for purchase online through the FairMormon Bookstore. Tell your friends about the Mormon Fair-Cast. Share a link on your Facebook page and help increase the popularity of the Mormon Fair-Cast by subscribing to this podcast in iTunes, and by rating it and writing a review.

The views and opinions expressed in the podcast may not reflect those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or that of FairMormon

 

 

Filed Under: Anti-Mormon critics, Apologetics, Bible, Book of Mormon, Evidences, Faith Crisis, General, Geography, Hosts, Joseph Smith, Michael R. Ash, Ned Scarisbrick, Podcast, Power of Testimony

Mormon Fair-cast 284: #2, Is the Bible an authentic source of truth?

September 25, 2014 by Ned Scarisbrick

https://media.blubrry.com/mormonfaircast/www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/KT_AUTH-OF-BIBLE_2.mp3

Podcast: Download (28.5MB)

Subscribe: RSS

i-believe-podcast-karen-239x300In this second interview in a series with DM Johnson, we discuss extra-Biblical evidence, or evidence of the Bible’s truthfulness from sources outside the Bible. Dave and I talk about the following points:

  • New Testament figures who are attested in outside sources

  • Writers who chronicled the events surrounding Jesus’ death and the darkness which followed

  • Evidence from Josephus

  • The methods and norms of historical documentation

  • Early Christian writers

  • Similarities between these outside sources and events within the Bible

  • You can find the complete transcript here.

    This series of podcasts were produced by the “I Believe” podcast group. They are by permission of Karen Trifiletti the author of this work.

    As always the view and opinions expressed in this podcast may not represent those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint or that of FairMormon

Filed Under: Anti-Mormon critics, Apologetics, Bible, Conversion, Doctrine, Early Christianity, Evidences, Faith Crisis, General, Mormon Voices, Philosophy, Podcast, Power of Testimony

Fair Issues 67: In the Book of Mormon where is the city called Nahom?

September 21, 2014 by Ned Scarisbrick

https://media.blubrry.com/mormonfaircast/www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Fair-Issues-67-Pod.mp3

Podcast: Download (7.2MB)

Subscribe: RSS

MAAfter Nephi’s broken-bow incident the Lehites continued on their Journey until the death of Ishmael. “And (he) was buried,” wrote Nephi, “in the place which was  called Nahom” (1Nephi 17:24).

Typically – in customary Israelite fashion – the Lehites re-named places through which they traveled.  In this instance, however, Ishmael was buried in a place the “was called Nahom.” In 1952, based strictly on the text, Hugh Nibley suggested that the place was already known as Nahom prior to the Lehite arrival.

In this podcast brother Ash relates from various sources a probable location for the city of Nahom in ancient Arabia.

The full text of this article can be found at Deseret News online.

Brother Ash is author of the book Shaken Faith Syndrome: Strengthening One’s Testimony in the Face of Criticism and Doubt, as well as the book, of Faith and Reason: 80 Evidences Supporting the Prophet Joseph Smith. Both books are available for purchase online through the FairMormon Bookstore. Tell your friends about the Mormon Fair-Cast. Share a link on your Facebook page and help increase the popularity of the Mormon Fair-Cast by subscribing to this podcast in iTunes, and by rating it and writing a review.

The views and opinions expressed in the podcast may not reflect those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or that of FairMormon

 

Filed Under: Anti-Mormon critics, Apologetics, Book of Mormon, Evidences, Faith Crisis, General, Geography, Hosts, Joseph Smith, Michael R. Ash, Mormon Voices, Ned Scarisbrick, Podcast, Power of Testimony

Mormon Fair-cast 280: #1, Is the Bible an authentic source of truth?

September 17, 2014 by Ned Scarisbrick

https://media.blubrry.com/mormonfaircast/www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/KT_AUTHORITY-OF-BIBLE-1.mp3

Podcast: Download (34.2MB)

Subscribe: RSS

i-believe-podcast-karen-239x300There’s a lot at stake when it comes to believing or not believing in the Bible. If Christianity weren’t true, then the truthfulness of the Bible wouldn’t matter at all. But if Christianity is true–and we hope to show you that it is–then it’s vitally important for us to seriously consider the Bible.

In this, the first of 9 podcasts, I talk with DM Johnson, an author, Bible enthusiast, and amateur scholar about 8 reasons that the Bible is a reliable source of truth. We discuss the following points:

  • Extra-Biblical evidence

  • Manuscript evidence

  • Archaeology

  • The historical method

  • The Gospels are based on eyewitnesses

  • Evidence pointing to the Resurrection

  • Undesigned coincidences in the Bible

  • Prophecies about Jesus

We hope you’ll join us for this and future interviews, and invite you to read the Bible for yourself.

You can find the complete transcript here.

This series of podcasts were produced by the “I Believe” podcast group. They are by permission of Karen Trifiletti the author of this work.

As always the view and opinions expressed in this podcast may not represent those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint or that of FairMormon.

Filed Under: Apologetics, Bible, Conversion, Doctrine, Early Christianity, Evidences, Faith Crisis, General, Interfaith Dialogue, LDS Culture, Mormon Voices, Philosophy, Podcast, Power of Testimony

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 5

September 16, 2014 by Mike Ash

MAThe following series of articles is a fictional dialogue between Shane and Doug, two former missionary companions many years after their missions. Shane writes to his friend Doug who has posted comments about his on-going faith crisis on Facebook. The characters are fictionalized composites of members who have faced these same dilemmas but the issues are based on very real problems which have caused some to stumble. Likewise, the responding arguments are based on the author’s own personal engagement with these same concerns as well as his discussion of these issues with other members who have struggled. (By Michael R. Ash, author of Shaken Faith Syndrome: Strengthening One’s Testimony in the Face of Criticism and Doubt, and Of Faith and Reason: 80 Evidences Supporting the Prophet Joseph Smith, and Director of Media Products for FairMormon.)

Dear Doug,

I haven’t heard from you since my last letter discussing Joseph Smith’s hesitancy to talk about his First Vision. I hope all is well. As promised, this letter hopes to address your concerns with the fact that Joseph wrote or dictated various accounts of the First Vision. From your previous letter it appears that you were surprised to find out that there were variant renditions of the vision. You quoted, in fact, one critic who claims that the Church has tried to “cover up” the fact that these differing accounts exist. The truth is, Doug, that the various versions have actually been discussed in the official Church magazines such as the Improvement Era in 1970 and again in the Ensign in 1985 and 1996.

LDS scholars have known about the different versions for many years and the Church has attempt to publicly acknowledge and discuss those versions for more than forty years—long before there was the Internet, which, as critics often claim, is the impetus which has “exposed” these supposed difficulties.

The real concern isn’t about “covering up” the fact that these different accounts exist, but rather what we make of the fact—acknowledged for decades by believing LDS scholars—that there are discrepancies between the accounts. This particular issue is one that really had no impact on me during my own faith-crisis. I remember having read one of the Ensign articles that discussed the different accounts of the First Vision so it didn’t catch me off guard when I read about it in anti-LDS literature.

I know the point of the critics is that Joseph Smith supposedly evolved his story as he got older—which suggests that the story is made-up—but I never found this argument to be that impressive. Who doesn’t tell about an event different at different stages in one’s life or depending on the listening audience?

When I was about 10 my 8 year-old little brother got out the ladder and climbed on the roof in the hopes of “parachuting” off with a bed sheet. The sheet got stuck on the roof antenna and he dangled precariously over the ledge of a two-story drop. My mom came to the rescue, climbed the ladder and pulled him in back to the roof. It was a fun story I told for many years about my crazy little brother. It wasn’t until I was in college that I discovered that my mom was deathly afraid of heights. I never knew it before. My mom told how she really struggled to get up on the roof and prayed for strength. She worried that if she ran to get a neighbor or called the fire department, the sheet might rip and my brother would fall to the ground, so she knew she had to move fast.

When I tell the story to my own kids the event is the same, but the story and emphasis I tell is different than the way I told the story in my pre-college years. Changing the details in hindsight doesn’t mean I’ve fabricated the story, I just know more now than I did then so my story includes the wisdom that has been added.

Most of the so-called “discrepancies” between the various accounts are of little importance and can easily be resolved by additional insight that Joseph received following the vision as well as the audience to whom the accounts were written. I’ll bet you don’t tell the First Vision story exactly the same—with every nuance and emphasis—when you talk to your High Priest group as you did when you were telling an investigator while we were on our missions.

The three biggest potential problems with the differing accounts are: 1) Joseph’s age is inconsistent in the differing accounts: 2) according to many critics there was no 1820 revival (which Joseph claimed was the reason he sought the Lord in prayer), and: 3) in the first known record (1832) Joseph only mentioned seeing Christ rather than seeing both the Father and the Son. So let’s look three issues.

Joseph’s Age at the First Vision

From 1828 to 1831 Joseph began collecting, compiling, and attempting to preserve Church documents—the first of which was his revelations. Later he began gathering other documents such as minute books. By 1832 he began documenting the details of his personal life and history. This 1832 record was penned primarily by Joseph himself, although some parts were written by Joseph’s scribe Fredrick G. Williams. Although the 1832 history was an unpolished draft and was never printed, it contains the earliest known account of Joseph’s First Vision.

This 1832 account claims that Joseph was in his sixteenth year when he experienced the vision (this would mean that he was 15 years old—in our first year of life we are less than 1 year old, in our second year of life we are 1 year old, etc.). In the official 1838 account, however, Joseph says that the vision happened in his fifteenth year (or when he was 14 years old). Why the discrepancy?

First, the “sixteenth” year in the 1832 account is not in Joseph’s handwriting but in Williams handwriting and is inserted between two normal lines of text. Obviously, Joseph’s age was added after Joseph first penned the account. It’s possible that Williams got the age wrong, but it’s also possible that Joseph Smith couldn’t immediately remember the year when the theophany took place.

I know I’ve had times when memory has failed me. Without my wife’s help I can’t accurately remember which year we first went to Disneyland, when I experienced my first kiss, or when my tent got flooded at Boy Scout camp. When Joseph initially experienced the First Vision he had no idea that this was the first in a series of events that would ultimately lead to the restoration. That connection wouldn’t be made until years later when Joseph could look back on the past with the benefit of hindsight. Under such circumstances he may not have made a mental note regarding the year or month when the vision occurred, and years later he would have been forced to calculate or estimate backwards in order to recover the correct date—the same as I have done on numerous occasions.

Joseph’s recital of his childhood memories indicate that he was just like the rest of us when it came to recalling things from our past. The further back in the past, the more likely he was to estimate his age with qualifiers such as “about.” In fact, in his official (and published) 1838 history he said that his brother Alvin died in 1824. Four years later, however, he discovered that he was mistaken and he corrected the history to reflect the correct year of Alvin’s death at 1823.

No 1820 Revival

A number of critics have argued (and you cited some of these in your previous letter) that, contrary to Joseph’s 1838 First Vision recital, there was no religious revival in Palmyra in 1820. First, it’s important to point out that Joseph didn’t claim there was an 1820 “revival” but that there was an “unusual excitement on the subject of religion” in the vicinity preceding his plea for the Lord’s guidance. The fact is, however, that newspaper articles, letters, and other writings by non-Mormons of the day, support exactly what Joseph Smith claimed. There were a number of religious camp meetings and revivals in the area surrounding the Smith’s home during, and just prior to, 1820. The critics are flat our wrong in their argument—which is demonstrated by current research and documentation.

One Personage Instead of Two

As you note in your previous email, the critics claim that the story of the First Vision evolved into a more complicated tale as time passed by. Prior to 1835, they argue, Joseph claimed to have only seen one personage in his vision (unlike the appearance of the Father and the Son which we read about in the 1835 account).

Joseph wrote his 1832 account as an unpolished and unpublished brief personal biography in which the focus of the First Vision recital was his personal standing before the Lord. The 1835 account was transcribed by Joseph’s scribe Warren Parish when Joseph recounted the experience to a non-Mormon visitor. In this account Joseph shared the detail that both the Father and Son appeared in his vision.

When we examine the letters and journals of those who knew Joseph prior to 1835 we find that as early as 1832 some members were aware that Joseph was visited by two personages in his First Vision. The fact that Joseph didn’t mention the Father and the Son in his rough 1832 account doesn’t indicate that he made up the story, but rather than the focus of recital was different than the 1835 account in which he shared a more detail with a non-member who was curious about the events leading up to the Restoration.

The fact of the matter is, that all of Joseph’s accounts of the First Vision are harmonious on the important points—Joseph’s disillusionment with the churches of his day, his search for religious truth, his prayer for guidance, the fact that God answer’s prayers, and the appearance of deity in response to his supplication.

While Joseph may not have initially understood the worldwide significance of his First Vision, in time he was able to see that the hand of God was already in play from his early childhood, through his adolescent years, and into adulthood as the Lord prepared him to become an instrument in the Restoration of Christ’s Church on Earth.

Your friend,

Shane

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 1

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 2

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 3

Letters to a Former Missionary Companion – Letter 4

Filed Under: Apologetics, First Vision

  • « Go to Previous Page
  • Page 1
  • Interim pages omitted …
  • Page 31
  • Page 32
  • Page 33
  • Page 34
  • Page 35
  • Interim pages omitted …
  • Page 48
  • Go to Next Page »

Primary Sidebar

Faithful Study Resources for Come, Follow Me

Subscribe to Blog

Enter your email address:

Subscribe to Podcast

Podcast icon
Subscribe to podcast in iTunes
Subscribe to podcast elsewhere
Listen with FAIR app
Android app on Google Play Download on the App Store

Pages

  • Blog Guidelines

FAIR Latest

  • Come, Follow Me with FAIR – 1 Samuel 8–10; 13; 15–16 – Part 2 – Autumn Dickson
  • A New Translation of Isaiah: Q&A with Scholar Donald W. Parry
  • Come, Follow Me with FAIR – 1 Samuel 8–10; 13; 15–16 – Jennifer Roach Lees
  • Come, Follow Me with FAIR – 1 Samuel 8–10; 13; 15–16 – Part 1 – Autumn Dickson
  • Love All; Love Each

Blog Categories

Recent Comments

  • Kaylyn Dastrup on Come, Follow Me with FAIR – 1 Samuel 8–10; 13; 15–16 – Part 1 – Autumn Dickson
  • Guerry Green on Come, Follow Me with FAIR – Exodus 7–13 – Part 1 – Autumn Dickson
  • Antonio Moreno on Taking on the Name of Jesus Christ
  • Sister Truelove on Humble Souls at Altars Kneel
  • Antonio Moreno on Forsake Not Your Own Mercy

Archives

Follow Us

  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • iTunes
  • YouTube
Android app on Google Play Download on the App Store

Footer

FairMormon Logo

FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Donate to FAIR

We are a volunteer organization. We invite you to give back.

Donate Now

Site Footer